CATARI comes along at Pacific Seacraft

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
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In my book, that's not a pilothouse, it's a deck saloon. And I agree it's too big.

I think that this hull would look best if it had a pure pilothouse. It would be half the length of this thing, with a raised fwd-looking chart table where the AP remote could be used to steer, and it would have a short seat opposite for other crew. The saloon would be lower down, where it could be much wider.

When Bob has drawn that, I'll probably change my mind and say that I want a cat ketch anyway, so we need a new hull shape :)

 
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Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,132
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Punta Gorda FL
I like the aft cockpit version a lot better too.

Curious about what ND thinks of it? I know his heart was set on a ketch, but did that drawing cause any second thoughts? Would have for me, but I never had my heart set on a ketch.
I think it might be a little late for 2nd thoughts for ND, Tom. And it this point I'm sure it would be more like 1000th thoughts, easily rejected.

Nothing like committing people and funds to a project to sharpen the thinking.
I'm sure he won't hit the reset button at this point and build another boat. I also recall that Bob tried to talk him out of the ketch rig without success, a process that probably involved drawings like the one we're discussing. Just wondering about his current reaction to that drawing.

 

py26129

Super Anarchist
2,855
193
Montreal
Boy:

Getting close but no new photos. I'll post them as I get them. I am in daily contact with the yard and working on some variations on the same hull.

Wow! That is REALLY good looking! That's what I would want if I were to do a cruising boat! Bravo!
I'm with Kim on the "Wow! That is REALLY good looking!"

But I keep wondering what it would look like with just the low house, aft cockpit, and rigged as a high peaked gaff schooner. I'd guess the bow sprit might need to extend some to balance the sail plan, and I know it wouldn't point as well as the Cutter or Ketch rigged versions. But with a black hull, I'd bet it'd look pretty sweet.

Unfortunately, I too am in the awaiting the lottery win first stage. Fortunately for me, ND, and Kim, and KDH are willing to share!
That boat makes me drool every time I look at it. People at the office are starting to wonder if something is wrong with me.

In the meantime, you can fine me in the lottery line right behind Crash.

 

SemiSalt

Super Anarchist
7,791
288
WLIS
In my book, that's not a pilothouse, it's a deck saloon. And I agree it's too big.I think that this hull would look best if it had a pure pilothouse. It would be half the length of this thing, with a raised fwd-looking chart table where the AP remote could be used to steer, and it would have a short seat opposite for other crew. The saloon would be lower down, where it could be much wider.When Bob has drawn that, I'll probably change my mind and say that I want a cat ketch anyway, so we need a new hull shape :)
Isn't the point of a boat like this to have a living room with a view? And, if so, why make it small?

 

monsoon

Super Anarchist
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238
ELIS
I love this boat. That's a heck of a galley.

On a pilot house/deck salon (whatever) boat such as this does it ever make sense to raise the aft end of the cockpit sole so the helmsman can see over the house?

 

Bob Perry

Super Anarchist
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Monsoon:

Yes it does make sense to raise the cockpit sole aft for visibility and that is exactly why I did it on the deck tooling. Way ahead of you there. Do you really think I'd miss something like that?

There are two steps in the cockpit. This provides standing headroom under the PH overhang and good visibility over the PH for the owner's diminutive wife. This was mocked up off the boat. This was mocked up on the boat. This was 3D modeled. This was designed. This is an old drawing. There have been several interior changes but the cockpit levels have never been changed.



 
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Bob Perry

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Semi is dead spot on with his comments on the size of the salon. A small PH just wont; cut it. Here is how I know this. I have designed several PH boats over the years. Some have small PH volume and other have big PH volume. I have found that if the weather is not so nice people want to be in the pilot house. ALL THE PEOPLE ON BOARD WANT TO BE IN THE PH! It makes sense. They can see out. No point in having a PH if it cannot accommodate the entire crew in comfort. Been there and done that. It doesn't work.

I won't waste my time arguing over what you call it. Deck salon or pilot house, it's all the same to me, just words.

"I'm sure he won't hit the reset button at this point and build another boat."

Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom. You say the darndest things some times. ND's boat is almost done. I'm sure he has no intention of hitting the reset button at this stage. You are forgetting that the boat ND is getting is the boat ND wants. It's that simple.

7070:

We made the change to a Pullman forward instead of V berths on ND;s boat months ago. It looks good.

Not sure if there is the height I need under the side decks to get upper and lower q berths. Might be doable.

Remember, I have been posting the design work on CATARI pretty much fro the preliminary stages onward. We are THE WORLD'S LARGEST YACHT DESIGN OFFICE. Areas that needed further attention and refinement have been addressed by the staff here many times over. I have had a lot of help with this design and I am very grateful for it.

 
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warbird

Super Anarchist
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lake michigan
Remember, I have been posting the design work on CATARI pretty much fro the preliminary stages onward. We are THE WORLD'S LARGEST YACHT DESIGN OFFICE. Areas that needed further attention and refinement have been addressed by the staff here many times over. I have had a lot of help with this design and I am very grateful for it.
....this is THE WORLD'S LARGEST SCHOOL OF YACHT DESIGN" also and I (we?) are very grateful to the maestro!

 
crash brings up an interesting point. The Pilot House makes for a fine big saloon with a lovely view but because you need to have side decks, the width of the Pilothouse (Raised Saloon, whatever) is restricted to something much less than the hull's beam.

How would all the space under the side decks outboard of the saloon normally be used in a layout like this? Too high for tankage, seems a waste just as storage. Hmm, design spiral...

 

Bob Perry

Super Anarchist
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Sal:

That is the age old problem with a pilot house. If you sink the cabin sole enough to let the settee go outboard under the side deck while preserving the raised salon big windows you will end up with 7.5' headroom and awkward spaces like you see on many of the Oysters. There is no magic wand for this. I balance all the needs and let the space under the side decks just be stowage. It's a lot of volume and difficult to access easily but it can be done and I have done it before.

Not much you can do with a boa interior that's new for me. There is this assumption that adding a big lump, i.e. pilot house, buys you more interior volume but that is not the case. In terms of usable interior volume you actually lose volume. due to the loss of the volume under the side deck. But I value side decks and I am not going to whittle them away so the owner can display two more doilies. I'll see if I can add some contrast to that image so it shows up better.

http://s950.photobucket.com/user/rh...7-4d95-8571-327eb4f3eacd_zpsxxhi7wd0.jpg.html

387fac95-f1a7-4d95-8571-327eb4f3eacd_zpsxxhi7wd0.jpg


 
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Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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De Nile
thanks to you both, I can finally visualize why all those great PH boats have smaller interiors...

oh, and I bought my lottery ticket last night...

 
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Bob Perry

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Just one ticket?

If you look at the Baba 40 PH and some of my later boats I have tried to work around this problem of how to handle the volume under the side deck by dropping the galley down two steps so it can expand under the side deck. In this current 63' project you can see that the version with the aft head and the double quarter berth both of those areas are two steps down from the PH sole level. But if you want to sit comfortably at the dinette and gaze out of big windows you will have to raise the dinette and if you raise the dinette you are doomed to having to keep it within the perimeter of the pilot house trunk. Note also on the Baba 40 how I bumped out the piolot house sides from the forward cabin trunk. to leave me what I considered minimal but workable side decks. You can see this exact same feature on my FD35 aka Baba 35 ph model and the Tashiba ph 40, 36 and 31 models. Note also that in the way of the PH on this Tashiba 31 I have eliminated the bulwark and brought the side deck level up to right under the "cap rail". This way I gain about 3" of additional height under the side deck.



 
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Bryanjb

Super Anarchist
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My sailing style is more driven to the Swan but I know I would much rather have the Perry. Funny how when you get older you appreciate different things. A beautiful sunny afternoon broad reaching towards the Caribbean or turning down from the weather mark with a big ease as the Assy goes up....

 
Boy:

Getting close but no new photos. I'll post them as I get them. I am in daily contact with the yard and working on some variations on the same hull.

nice. not too obtrusive. i find most of these things too awkward and break the line. which is painful to my eye. not too bad in a motorsailor, but those are something else. in pure sailing vessels its as though theyre trying to cram a bowling ball into a wallet. the sheer is delightful.

 
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Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,132
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Punta Gorda FL
crash brings up an interesting point. The Pilot House makes for a fine big saloon with a lovely view but because you need to have side decks, the width of the Pilothouse (Raised Saloon, whatever) is restricted to something much less than the hull's beam.

How would all the space under the side decks outboard of the saloon normally be used in a layout like this? Too high for tankage, seems a waste just as storage. Hmm, design spiral...
You could always put dinghy outboard fuel there. Too high? Well, OK, put it up on deck like everyone else to solve that problem.

 

Soñadora

Super Anarchist
Pilothouse/Deck Saloon is hard to do right. As a huge fan of the Deck Saloon (I like to watch), I've built up a short list of those I find appealing. My first encounter was on a Baba 40 PH. Still, in my book, the best looking ph/ds I've ever seen. It is so perfectly integrated and proportional with the entire design of the boat that it's hard to think it could get better (ok, the LM 46 Bob Designed is maybe a RCH better).

This design just looks perfect. And no doubt, Bob has done his magic inside to make sure anyone seated has a wonderful view out those windows (personally, those windows could be a scoshe smaller - I'm sure once we see the rendering maybe they won't look so big).

Bob is the master when it comes to the deck saloon. I also like Chuck Payne's Reindeer and some of the Humphrey's Oyster designs, but when it comes to making the structure an aesthetic integration into the whole boat, Bob's the best.

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
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Great Wet North
I find it interesting that if you only look at the side elevation there's no way of telling what size the boat is. The proportions are so well done that the boat could be 40', 50', 60' - just can't tell.

 

Alcatraz5768

Super Anarchist
Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions and opinions Bob. It really gives an insight into your design technique and emphasises the amount of customisation available for custom boat owners. Good work.

 




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