Chicago Area III

stayoutofthemiddle

Super Anarchist
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Chicago
I'm strongly considering this for our crew. 
Totally uninforceable. What people don't realize about this Covid is it's all about the details. How many people get a pizza delivered or pick up food and don't remove it from the packaging and plate it? Hands touch all of that stuff then you are eating your pizza or Thai out of the same packaging as you hand it.

 

stayoutofthemiddle

Super Anarchist
1,423
79
Chicago
If they do have the race. I can see participation way down this year as people bail thinking it’s not worth the risk. Boats will have crew that will bail, owners will bail stranding crew who want to do the race. I bet only 100 boats cross the start line this year, if the race occurs.
100???!!!! 25% of that is there is a race! But again, it will be cancelled.

 

CutterCaptain

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Chicago
Totally uninforceable. What people don't realize about this Covid is it's all about the details. How many people get a pizza delivered or pick up food and don't remove it from the packaging and plate it? Hands touch all of that stuff then you are eating your pizza or Thai out of the same packaging as you hand it.
The city's health commissioner actually just commented on this during her daily update.  She was emphasizing that you can't get it from food as it's a respiratory virus, not gastric.  She said that even if someone infected coughed on your food and you ate it, the virus wouldn't survive in your stomach.  The concern is getting it in your lungs.

 

JoeO

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Chicago
If they do have the race. I can see participation way down this year as people bail thinking it’s not worth the risk. Boats will have crew that will bail, owners will bail stranding crew who want to do the race. I bet only 100 boats cross the start line this year, if the race occurs.
I highly doubt even 100.

 

JoeO

Super Anarchist
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159
Chicago
The city's health commissioner actually just commented on this during her daily update.  She was emphasizing that you can't get it from food as it's a respiratory virus, not gastric.  She said that even if someone infected coughed on your food and you ate it, the virus wouldn't survive in your stomach.  The concern is getting it in your lungs.
But as SOTM said it's not from the food, but the packaging... touch the cartons, etc. then stuff your face, touch your face, whatever... surface to hand to mouth transfer.

 

JoeO

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Chicago
My wife is an ICU nurse. Once a patient shows symptoms, it is the 6th day of symptoms where they go into a tail spin and need help.
I'd imagine that "day 6" data point is the result of a number of observations... a mean value. As someone in the Ins industry I know you understand std dev, etc... so what is the sigma on that 6 days? I day? 2 days? 0.5 days? 

 
Race usually has 250 to 300 boats. I’m sticking with 100 because all of the WI and Lake Michigan-Michigan boats will show up. And I’m sure the Devosses can have the rules bent to allow the big boats with more than 10 people on the crew pull to do the race.

 
But as SOTM said it's not from the food, but the packaging... touch the cartons, etc. then stuff your face, touch your face, whatever... surface to hand to mouth transfer.
I thought that got debunked. They didn’t they stop recommending wiping down all groceries and treating external containers as contaminated?

 

stayoutofthemiddle

Super Anarchist
1,423
79
Chicago
The city's health commissioner actually just commented on this during her daily update.  She was emphasizing that you can't get it from food as it's a respiratory virus, not gastric.  She said that even if someone infected coughed on your food and you ate it, the virus wouldn't survive in your stomach.  The concern is getting it in your lungs.
It's not about the food. Its about the packaging. Touching surfaces.

 

stayoutofthemiddle

Super Anarchist
1,423
79
Chicago
I thought that got debunked. They didn’t they stop recommending wiping down all groceries and treating external containers as contaminated?
Debunked? What to debunk? If you touch a door knob, box of pasta, or pizza box that someone with Covid has touched there is a risk. 

Yesterday at the Gov's press conference there was a perfect example. Guy talking before the Gov'n was coughing into his hand. He then touched all over the podium. The Gov went up there, touched the podium, then touched his face and pulled his mask down to speak. Was interesting to observe... 

 

JoeO

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Chicago
I thought that got debunked. They didn’t they stop recommending wiping down all groceries and treating external containers as contaminated?
CDC still says to clean surfaces... not sure why food packaging is much different than countertops, light switches... also they say to wash hands after receiving take-out orders. So there must be some concerns of transmission even if not paramount. There's definitely agreement that hand washing after receiving groceries or carry out is warranted.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cleaning-disinfection.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/essential-goods-services.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/23/health/groceries-takeout-coronavirus-wellness-scn-trnd/index.html

 

JoeO

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Chicago
Race usually has 250 to 300 boats. I’m sticking with 100 because all of the WI and Lake Michigan-Michigan boats will show up. And I’m sure the Devosses can have the rules bent to allow the big boats with more than 10 people on the crew pull to do the race.
Where are those WI & MI boats going to go if they can't raft up at CYC?  Cans in Monroe?  I suppose transient slips would be available at near-empty 31st harbor. Doesn't sound like an attractive proposition though.

 

CutterCaptain

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Chicago
So I’m quite curious as to what legal authority cities on the Great Lakes (IL specific) have over “their” waterfront. What are the jurisdictional limits that exist between cities, states and “federally navigable waterways”?  Obviously topical when Chicago’s mayor says things like “boating won’t be allowed in Chicago...”  For example, can someone with a slip in Hammond or Winthrop sail along our shoreline? Drop their hook just north of Montrose Beach, or the playpen (which I believe is a designated anchorage...but designated by who?) etc..Genuinely curious and appreciate the insights of those familiar with these matters.. 

 
I don’t think anyone is stopping you from dropping anchor off Chicago. But like ~85% of the lake front is city park and that’s closed, including all the harbors because they are in the parks. So by the city denying access to the facilities you need to use to go boating, boating is prevented. But If you got access somehow (INdiana harbors) I’m sure you could be playing up and down the lakefront. However expected to get pulled over and ‘safety inspected’ by the CPD every 1/2 hour on the dot till you decide to go back to IN

 

JoeO

Super Anarchist
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159
Chicago
So I’m quite curious as to what legal authority cities on the Great Lakes (IL specific) have over “their” waterfront. What are the jurisdictional limits that exist between cities, states and “federally navigable waterways”?  Obviously topical when Chicago’s mayor says things like “boating won’t be allowed in Chicago...”  For example, can someone with a slip in Hammond or Winthrop sail along our shoreline? Drop their hook just north of Montrose Beach, or the playpen (which I believe is a designated anchorage...but designated by who?) etc..Genuinely curious and appreciate the insights of those familiar with these matters.. 
Report back to us on Monday what you find out:

https://www.greatlakeslaw.org/files/law_and_governance_of_the_great_lakes.pdf

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1781&ChapterID=47

http://nsglc.olemiss.edu/Advisory/pdfs/lake-michigan-shoreline.pdf

Control over Lake Michigan within State (Illinois) boundaries rests with State of Illinois. Some control is delegated to local municipalities (e.g., City of Chicago), to an etxent of "X" miles (I saw one reference for 3 miles, but not sure if it is current).

"For example, can someone with a slip in Hammond or Winthrop sail along our shoreline?"

   Yes. As long as 3(?) mi offshore

"Drop their hook just north of Montrose Beach"       

As long as 3(?) mi offshore

"or the playpen"   

Playpen closed per City of Chicago order. CPD Marine unit will enforce.

The reality is the CPD MU is not going to go out and hassle somebody sailing along a few miles offshore. Just don't try and anchor in the playpen or off any other beaches. Or enter any harbor.

The last time anyone went out after somebody sailing merrily along a few miles offshore was probably 1972... in late October/early November... Wally Stenhouse (CYC member) took his S&S49 "Aura" (sistership to Bay Bea and Scaramouche) out for crew practice, before shipping the boat east for the next year's SORC, Middle Sea, and  Transatlantic races (part of the WORC - World Ocean Racing Championship, which they won in 1973, I think) - coasties (back when Chicago had coasties) went out and told them to go back in, too dangerous... but they said, sorry, we've got to pracitce.   So if you do get visited by the po-po for just sailing along, you'll be in good comany

 

CFS Klopas

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JoeO

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