Choosing the right performance cruising cat for Uhuru.

[ol70]

The problem with the internet is people can make claims in anonymity and not have to back it up. I’m going to leave it at that unless people are ok with me posting screenshots of emails.

View attachment 583851

Hey Mike, I'm not sure I've had the opportunity met you personally yet, but I do know the owner of your brokerage quite well, and my opinion as someone who has made a living building and selling really expensive things is to gracefully let this one go and just focus on finding the right buyer for the MM50 (which is a great boat for the right buyer). But if you've read the thread as an expert in the field, you'd recognize this is not a good fit for the OP, but I do appreciate that you threw it out there.

Negative selling or customer interaction is never a good thing, even if you disagree, only sell to your strengths. Be the guy that scores the touchdown and then hands the ball to the ref, not the guy doing the moonwalk in the endzone.

Cheers!

 

[Zonker]

Asking about a boat for sale, or viewing it, and then deciding it's not for you might be perceived as "wasting somebodies time" - but if you are a private seller or a boat broker how many people look at a boat and DON'T buy it. Lots. It's part of the process.

I totally agree with o70. mrybas - Badmouthing somebody that hasn't really harmed you directly just reinforces my belief that a lot of boat brokers are lacking ethics. Just to refresh your memory this is what he actually said in closing about this boat.

But few owners/personalities later, well... no doubt at the right time and price she will be the right boat for somebody but I don't think she is the right boat for the OP, or for wife and I for our short term need. Cheers.

 

[jmurph]

Firstly, I posted Shooting Star in here, not mrybas.
Secondly, inferring that the boat has a major problem, then walking out without giving any detail or clarity on the statement does directly harm the listing broker. And is a bit of a sh*t act.
Third, that was someone else that said Wess is a time waster.

 

[J_Grove]

Over the years I've gained knowledge from Wess on this and the F boat forum and appreciate that. One of those bits of experience he's shared, which isn't about the boat as much the market for boats, is to be very cautious about "outing" a boat on a public forum (e.g., F27 beam thread), because fair or not, it will hurt its resale value. Lately on more than one thread I've seen him decline to even identify the model of boat he owns, in spite of the fact that he loves the boat, for reasons somehow related to the fact that he may be changing boats soon. I know what he owns and don't understand why he wouldn't give that information, but he knows a lot more than I do and it's his right to be cautious.
So to then throw out a bomb like "run don't walk away", and then qualify that later with a "purposely didn't name the boat" suggesting that he knew he was throwing said bomb at the time, but then later claim that all he meant was that it wasn't the right boat for the OP or for Wess, seems disingenuous.

 

[PIL66 - XL2]

What about this...?

 

[jmh2002]

What about this...?

Already posted on page 1 (link below) with quite a bit of discussion thereafter about length, lwl, accommodation, weight, payload carrying ability, sail area, etc as well as how manageable it all is short handed.

I noted some data (on page 2 I think - Edit, nope, page 4, see 2nd link below) to demonstrate that some of the longer but lower volume boats like the Etincelle 60, the Atlantic 57, etc don't actually have much more sail area and are therefore similar to many 50 footers handling wise - perhaps even easier because of the larger more stable platform.

But in general they are more easily able to carry a modern cruising payload without adversely affecting performance. Let alone other benefits like motion, comfort at sea, more space at anchor, etc.

The Etincelle 60 could tick a lot of boxes for someone looking for a big light fast cat without costing millions (although it still needs work + money spent to bring it up to a better standard), but ultimately it proved not to be suitable for the OP for a few different reasons.

Choosing the right performance cruising cat for Uhuru.

I'm looking for my blue water cruising boat. About me: I'm perceived as a racing sailor in monohulls. I do enjoy racing. Two time Masters world champion in the international 21' sport boat class, Viper 640 and national Champion in 3 different classes. But my enjoyment of racing comes from a...

forums.sailinganarchy.com

Choosing the right performance cruising cat for Uhuru.

I've done a lot of ocean miles, including an atlantic crossing on gunboats so, i have some experience w fast catamarans I had a look at the Marsaudon ORC 50 at the dock. My feeling was this is a boat that might often be scary It's a cool coat, and i'd love to go for a sail, but I wouldn't...

forums.sailinganarchy.com

 

[Russell Brown]

What about this...?

Why can't more of them look like that?

 

[mrybas]

Hey Mike, I'm not sure I've had the opportunity met you personally yet, but I do know the owner of your brokerage quite well, and my opinion as someone who has made a living building and selling really expensive things is to gracefully let this one go and just focus on finding the right buyer for the MM50 (which is a great boat for the right buyer). But if you've read the thread as an expert in the field, you'd recognize this is not a good fit for the OP, but I do appreciate that you threw it out there.

Negative selling or customer interaction is never a good thing, even if you disagree, only sell to your strengths. Be the guy that scores the touchdown and then hands the ball to the ref, not the guy doing the moonwalk in the endzone.

Cheers!

Hi Ol,
Thanks for your remarks.

At the beginning of this thread months ago, I messaged the person that started the thread the Shooting Star listing. He said he wasn’t interested and that’s fine.
Someone else posted the Shooting Star listing in this thread recently. I felt another poster made unfair and off base comments about about Shooting Star. My comments were intended to set the record straight about the boat in question, not start an internet pissing contest.

 

[ol70]

Hi Ol,
Thanks for your remarks.

At the beginning of this thread months ago, I messaged the person that started the thread the Shooting Star listing. He said he wasn’t interested and that’s fine.
Someone else posted the Shooting Star listing in this thread recently. I felt another poster made unfair and off base comments about about Shooting Star. My comments were intended to set the record straight about the boat in question, not start an internet pissing contest.

All good! The internet is a tough place because you can't always interpret somebody's writing with how they actually are. Thankfully though we are not all a bunch of adolescent teenage girls who will hold a grudge over silly stuff.

Let's all shake hands and just get back to chatting about all of our mutual interest in ridiculously expensive toys that depreciate like rocks & that you can't possibly justify spending money on, but we do because we love it!

Cheers!

 

[eastern motors]

Shitting on a boat like you know secrets but won't tell them is kind of weird. Not like it's a Corsair 36 with fragile bulkheads as described by Ian Farrier. RIP.

 

[ol70]

Shitting on a boat like you know secrets but won't tell them is kind of weird. Not like it's a Corsair 36 with fragile bulkheads as described by Ian Farrier. RIP.

You can also get a good look at a T-Bone steak if you stick your head up a bull’s ass…but I’d rather take the butcher’s word on it.

In other words…please move on, let’s all just be positive from here on out. Unless it’s talking about stuff I don’t like then all bets are off : )

 

[eastern motors]

You can also get a good look at a T-Bone steak if you stick your head up a bull’s ass…but I’d rather take the butcher’s word on it.

In other words…please move on, let’s all just be positive from here on out. Unless it’s talking about stuff I don’t like then all bets are off : )

Absolutely not. I want to know the bad things about boats I may purchase in the future. SA is a great resource.

 

[Monkey]

Hey man, I don't want to wreck what is a cool thread so if you want to talk MM50 start a thread on her or contact me off line. The OP here was/is (?) looking for a turn key RTW go anywhere performance cat with a high level of fit and finish and comfort/luxury. This doesn't seem a good fit to me. Was conceived as a KISS boat by the good Doc P and MM. Can only add that unless I have an evil twin brother I know nothing of I have no current plans to see the boat. And if you are trying to imply I am attempting to scare others away so we can buy her I can state with certainty we have not/will not be making an offer on that boat. She does hold a place in my heart because of what her original design brief was and how she came to be. But few owners/personalities later, well... no doubt at the right time and price she will be the right boat for somebody but I don't think she is the right boat for the OP, or for wife and I for our short term need. Cheers.

Sorry bud, but your love for trolling just got called out. You refuse to shut up in your trolling about Lasers, yet now you don’t want to talk? Put your big boy pants on and answer his question.

 

[Tark1]

Bit quiet here. What are people's thoughts on this.
Test Sailing this Catamaran DOWNWIND!:
Seems to sit around 9kts very under powered (but safe). Wonder what the speeds would be if they put a bigger downwind sail up?
Sailing deep with a small headsail up,sheeted in? I have seen this on other cats?
No pics of the main reefed? I would think small first reef then deep second reef? Almost need more reef points on performance big cats?

 

[PIL66 - XL2]

I think this is the delivery from the factory.... conservative sailing ..... the guy has one on order in build ...
Reef points would be evenly spaced or maybe the third one could be a little bigger... first one putting the head of the main at the forestay / shroud point.... Their web page is not clear on this.
These look well built and are the first Seawind that make sense. Previous models held on to old shapes that were heavy with low freeboard IMO but clearly marketed well and built in survey which was smart. ...... but I will just never get over their ethics of going bust, not paying suppliers and then starting up in a foreign country... poor form.

 

[smj]

 

[ol70]

Bit quiet here. What are people's thoughts on this.
Test Sailing this Catamaran DOWNWIND!:
Seems to sit around 9kts very under powered (but safe). Wonder what the speeds would be if they put a bigger downwind sail up?
Sailing deep with a small headsail up,sheeted in? I have seen this on other cats?
No pics of the main reefed? I would think small first reef then deep second reef? Almost need more reef points on performance big cats?

I think it's an extremely nice catamaran, I think they should clarify and call this a performance-oriented catamaran, it's not a performance cat though. But alas everyone's definition is different, and that's okay. There is a lot to like about this boat though for a couple that plans on cruising. The only thing I don't care for is dual helms that neither of which you can see the sails from, this would drive me nuts.

I find it entertaining that the Ruby Rose couple spent a year reviewing cats, asking builders to sponsor them/provide a discount and getting turned down by all but one, then "objectively" selected the 20-year-old designed Seawind 1600 as the "winner" that is heavily criticized by the performance cat experts when compared to their competition, then low and behold they select Seawind 1370 for their new boat. It is a little concerning that it has taken over 3 years for Seawind to deliver the boat.

I understand their videos are all paid advertisements, and more power to the Nick and Tyresa for being able to make a business out of this. As long as you keep this in mind while watching, it's pretty entertaining if you like boats. I do think they are very nice people and pretty good at their craft, it would be fun to enjoy an anchorage with them!

 

[J_Grove]

Coming up on three years since the Tula's Endless Summer couple ordered their Seawind. Since then they've been cruising an old trawler and doing the Everglades Challenge, but not making videos about their new cat.

 

[mrybas]

Coming up on three years since the Tula's Endless Summer couple ordered their Seawind. Since then they've been cruising an old trawler and doing the Everglades Challenge, but not making videos about their new cat.

I was talking to Billy recently. They *should have their boat in June.

 

[mpenman]

I think this is the delivery from the factory.... conservative sailing ..... the guy has one on order in build ...

They're sponsored by Seawind right? It's like taking advice from a sailing magazine doing their top 10 boat lists. Funny how the ones at the top end up being the most advertised. There is a Seawind 1600 that is sailing with the Pacific Posse to Marquesas that are having some teething issues that I think should not happen, but it's a boat. I'll have a chat with them when they make land.

Reef points would be evenly spaced or maybe the third one could be a little bigger... first one putting the head of the main at the forestay / shroud point....

My third reef is very, very deep. It's my oh crap line. Sail is coming down when I tug on that string. Island to island sailing, it's not on the sail. That being said, my main is a pinhead, so different than a roachy main. I've been pleasantly surprised by main sail performance alone.

but I will just never get over their ethics of going bust, not paying suppliers and then starting up in a foreign country... poor form.

Agreed, Gunboat did the same thing to a fair number of folks too. I do however like the new French Ownership and the team there.