Chris White the new Atlantic 72 and follow-up of the capsized Atlantic 57 Leopard

munt

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I really deserve to be punished for this! And Mr. Zit, I don't think I quite understand what you're saying. Could you elaborate?
 

MultiThom

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When I say very large, I was talking about 70 footers and above (a'la Penmanship) so that the daily SOG for the mono would be around 250 nm. But a couple million here and there among friends...what's the difference. If you are talking the smaller 50 footish Hanse vs an Atlantic 47, the cat costs more and goes further daily.
 

mpenman

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first of all, congratulation for the astonishing boat, really fantastic from all point of View!

Thank you for your availibility to answer questions, that are many on my side.
Let's start with this:
since few years Chris White is designing boat without mainsail, and he has many arguments to support his choice. At the moment i have no idea of the performance loss of this design compared with traditional mainsail.
Were you condisering a design with MastFoil®, do you have any experience with this rigging and a possibile comparison with the traditional rigging?
Appreciated. I don't have too much experience with the 47 and 49 Mastfoils, especially offshore. Chris would be far better to talk with about this than I. I do believe the main is slightly slower than a traditional main but it works in on the 47 because there are two of them as well as two jibs, so 4 working sails.

I came from a 57 and had sailed a fair bit on the 72 hull#1 skylark, and she screamed to weather. I mean really screamed. I think that this was a combination of length to beam ratio and the shape of the hulls. I really like our slab reefing and we can reef on any point of sail in any wind condition. That alone gives piece of mind. Our section is also very skinny compared to a regular section for a mast of this length. We also have the ability to tension our genoa stay hydraulically.

Our 57 had a slight hole in the wind range between the genoa and staysail, especially when wind angles were less than 40 apparent. On this boat the jib is bigger relative to the length and there are no holes.

With the pinhead we were able to have running backstays and move the shrouds forward allowing the main to run deeper. We also carry a huge asym for downwind sailing.
 

munt

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Hanse 50 vs. Atlantic 47 in 5 W/L and 5 triangle courses in winds of 8-16 kts doublehanded? Is the Atlantic using the "funny" sails or a more conventional rig? With the "funny" sails I know who I'd bet on...If they both had good rigs/sails it would be interesting. Does the Atlantic have the mini-keels? If there was a lot of broad reaching in 15 knots the cat should smoke em. So Thom, you buy one of each and we'll do a few years of testing in the venue of your choice. Only caveat is that the water has to be around 80 degrees year round? What's a few million...?
 

mpenman

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I agree with everything you're saying except the price. A new high-end cat is quite a bit more than a similar length/quality mono. (Prove me wrong!). Probably justifiably so, given the build costs. As far as shorthanding, I think either can be designed or setup to be manageable. I need to be flayed and defenestrated for posting this on the multi forum but I've been poisoned by some YouTube vids showing some nice new monos. Sorry...
I agree too. There are some awful catamarans being built currently that simply cannot sail upwind. Remember that Dashew's boats and Route 66 routinely sail high up in the teens, but many are also 70ft plus boats. Cats are definitely more expensive to build, as in much more expensive. Personally I would take a mono over some of the condomarans, but it would have to be something akin to a Route 66 or Deerfoot. I like in cockpit reefing and so prefer the CW setup over mono's but have no aversion to saying that many monos are simply a better buy and better value than many cats today.

BUT at anchor a cat is far superior in a rolly anchorage.
 

slug zitski

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I really deserve to be punished for this! And Mr. Zit, I don't think I quite understand what you're saying. Could you elaborate?

When I zip across the harbour in my rib it’s wake gets under that flat transom counter on these new fashion wide boys and goes ....Whack ! Kaboom !

A28BEC6A-8083-4BB3-AF5C-DC69F8FD2F92.jpeg
 

munt

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Mr. Penman, your boat is spectacular and Mr. White's boat, its story and his body of work are simply flabbergasting. Mr. Zit, now I get it, makes sense, you're the guy that zips around the harbor creating unpleasant wakes. I'll refrain from saying what kind of dental work should be performed on individuals who feel the need to zip around harbors. Thanks to all. As soon as Multithom completes the purchase of our 2 test boats we will begin the program and report the results.
 
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mpenman

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Well, this made me curious so I tried, but failed, to find ACC in a simple web search. Appreciate the assist.
43K lbs ... can you guess how much of that is boat vs stores?
Have always been curious about big cats vs big monohulls. A 72 foot mono has a hull speed of about 11.4 kts and doesn't care how much crap you store inside...tortoise and hare, though, since mono won't ever see 25 kts. A big cat has to care how much crap you carry...comment? Granted, accommodations on a big cat are much nicer.
Aquidneck Custom Composites.

43,000 was at DWL.
On a normal delivery we carry about 200 gallons of fuel. Best fuel consumption for us is 2gph at 8.5 knots. That's about 1,000 nautical miles of only motoring. Carry about 100 gallons of water but also make it underway. Stores and stuff add most probably another 1,000-1,500lbs. Toys like foils, sups, kites and surfboards are most probably another 500-700 or so pounds.

We're sitting about an inch to an inch and a half above DWL, so most probably 2k light, but I think that's more a factor of not having full fuel and water. We also have very, very little faring, tip of the hat to the ACC team. All inside lockers and cupboards got a coating of epoxy, which I prefer as you can see the carbon laminate, yet it's easy to clean.
 

munt

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Do you need a poor "uncle" on board to safety test your water toys? Maybe a butler? Bartender? I'm too lazy to do any real work and my personality isn't the best but I know how to open a bottle of wine. Unscrew to the left..?
 

MultiThom

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Hanse 50 vs. Atlantic 47 in 5 W/L and 5 triangle courses in winds of 8-16 kts doublehanded? Is the Atlantic using the "funny" sails or a more conventional rig?
Actually, I was just thinking about passage making. Pretty much straight line over a 24 hour period. Going from here to there.

I did enquire of ACC about the Discovery 21 that they would build prior to buying my searail. At the time, they quoted about double what the searail cost and dragging on trailer would be problematic...so I passed.
 

munt

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We need to stay very scientific if we're going to perform a proper experiment. I suppose we can do a few years of "going from here to there" sailing as part of our testing protocol, as long as we keep a straight face and don't allow any drugs, alcohol or a crew of semi-nude vixens to interfere with our objectivity. Come to think of it, maybe that's why some of the newer cruising cats don't give a shit how slow they go..?
 

MultiThom

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Ya get what ya pay for
That has not been my experience with boats, in general. Every boat I've owned has had "issues" that had to be overcome. None were turnkey, although the F242 came closest, followed by the Hobie Getaway...SeaRail had issues as did the Triak. That being said, "fixing" the issues on all these boats were the most pleasurable experiences in ownership. Sailing them comes in a close second. I guess I'm a tinkerer more than a sailor. I'm definitely from Mars; I wanna fix things more than I wanna talk about them.
 

Dog 2.0

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Hi multihullers,
Long time we don't discuss about Chris White news, just today I watched this YouTube video Atlantic 72 and 57


Very interesting
The big cat is just a dream
And i didn't know that after capsize the Atlantic 57 was afloat for 7 months and put on a sale and Chris White placed a bid and got his boat to renew and restore

My brother has a similar story. Chris contacted him to tell him of a Hammerhead 54 that had run up on the rocks and that he could get it for a song. My brother bought the boat. Chris prescribed the fix, my brother did the work and Chris certified it. My brother is one happy camper.
 

Chrisatlantic

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The P Ship is awesome, I’ve sailed on it. And it‘s just about as easy to sail as my 55 except for when you have to grind in th genoa at the upper end of its wind range on the Harken 80 (manual) winch. Halyard and furling winches are powered.

If you’ve seen the O’Kelly’s Atlantic 72 video then you’ve heard Chris’s comments about how similar the boats (Atlantic 42, 48, 55, 57 and 72) are set up. And I can say from my experience, there‘s not much that needs changing.

One thing that is different, Penmanship actually has permanent (not running) backstays to either transom that allows the shrouds to be farther forward and better control of inner and outer forestay tension/sag. With the full carbon build and this rig setup he can maintain less sag and with the hydraulic tensioner on the outer forestay he can make that pick up the rig tension when he’s using the genoa upwind (which isn’t often as the boat builds apparent quickly).
 

mpenman

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One thing that is different, Penmanship actually has permanent (not running) backstays to either transom that allows the shrouds to be farther forward and better control of inner and outer forestay tension/sag. With the full carbon build and this rig setup he can maintain less sag and with the hydraulic tensioner on the outer forestay he can make that pick up the rig tension when he’s using the genoa upwind (which isn’t often as the boat builds apparent quickly).
Running/fixed, what's the difference :).
Typo on my part.
After some rig tuning by Mark Washeim of Onesails, the main and the rig are working very well now.
We don't have a main traveller, which would be nice, but because we have the Upside Up, having a fixed point main was far easier. Also, when cruising, you normally set the main and forget, you're not trimming for the puffs/luffs.

To answer an earlier question, we have mini keels specifically for unintentional groundings and to protect rudders and prop shafts.
 

bushsailor

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QLD Australia
Running/fixed, what's the difference :).
Typo on my part.
After some rig tuning by Mark Washeim of Onesails, the main and the rig are working very well now.
We don't have a main traveller, which would be nice, but because we have the Upside Up, having a fixed point main was far easier. Also, when cruising, you normally set the main and forget, you're not trimming for the puffs/luffs.

To answer an earlier question, we have mini keels specifically for unintentional groundings and to protect rudders and prop shafts.
Have you tested the upside up system?
Which system do you have?
Electric release or air?
One cleat or 2?
Do you think it will make the boat much safer?
I have been thinking about it for a while but have not actually got around to buying a system.
 

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