Chris White the new Atlantic 72 and follow-up of the capsized Atlantic 57 Leopard

bushsailor

Anarchist
690
184
QLD Australia
This is more than academic for me.

I am transitioning from a sail boat racer who likes to go cruising on vacation to a cruiser who will go sail boat racing for my vacations.

I am clear on one thing. I will always keep my race boat and my cruising boat entirely separate. The compromise doesn't work for me. When it comes to the racing, I understand my addiction. It is reasonably under control . Two identical boats, one in Europe and one in the USA, racing with and against life long friends.

The choice of cruising boat for the next chapter in my life is not under control at the moment.
Here are my criteria:

1. I want to be able to make fast passages. Even if it is a day sail, I like to get there in 4 hours rather than 6 hours. If I am running from the Galapagos to Marquesas, I want to make a fast passage. I have not defined the pace precisely yet. Should I be looking for 200+ nm days? Not sure yet. There is no overlap with the speeds I accomplish when racing. I want a fast ,comfortable passage not the fastest passage. Prompt not terrifying. I have plenty of opportunities to scare myself when racing in the vicinity of rescue.

2. The vessel should be a joy to sail. I love everything about sailing, the feel of the helm in my hand and the feel of the deck under my toes. It is the most relaxing feeling in the world and I want a boat that conveys that feeling. I know that there are some fast cruising mono hulls that convey that joy. I know that racing multihulls offer joy (because I have raced on them) I know that condomarans do not. I have not sailed on a performance cruising multihull.

3. I want to be safe and I want my family to be safe. I know two things. One, I intend to avoid sailing in 40+ knots of breeze.....Two, If you sail for long enough you will get caught by 40+ knots of breeze.

4. (a) The saloon and daily living space cannot be the cave. If you are sailing in beautiful parts of the world , part of the experience is being surrounded by the beauty when you are sitting in the saloon with the family, not just when you are at the helm
(b) I can sleep in a cave (aka hull) just fine. (As long as the motion is joyful).
Steve and Liz Dashwood have done this with their monohulls so have Boreal and some others. The performance cruising cats have done this....but I have never sailed a performance cruising cat.

5. The boat has to be really well set up for short-handed sailing. Chris White made a really wise comment on the video. Most cruising boats are sailed by couples, which means they are sailed single-handed because someone is sleeping.
My accommodation requirements are less demanding than most. We have one son at college. I like to think he will join us from time to time and I hope he will bring his significant other. It is too far out to contemplate his children. We will have a couple of friends or family from time to time because so many of our friends and all my family are sailors. But the length of the boat is determined by my sailing requirements not the number of berths.

6. Length. I differ from the post about volume. Length affects sailing. I havent drawn a line in the sand but somewhere around 50+/- gives me performance, safety, comfort and single handed maneuverability

So I am somewhat flailing. One Friday I am looking at higher speed expedition yachts and the next reading up on performance cruising multi-hulls. The good news is that list is gradually getting shorter. The bad news is that it is gradually getting more expensive.

I am adding Chris White to the list.

Best

VMK
I think you are on the right track. Very difficult to get a boat that performs well though. I would not be put off by 50' though. 60' would not be much different in handling 2 up.
Get any boat weighed before you buy it. Catamaran claims of light weight are often greatly exaggerated.
From my perspective sailing fast in light air is the real holly grail of a cruising multi. I am really not interested in sailing around fast in 30kn of wind.
One boat in Aus which may work is Windswept a southern ocean 56. Build a couple of queen berths outside the main cabin along the back beam, a good cockpit cover and you would have a very comfortable very fast cruiser.
 
I think you are on the right track. Very difficult to get a boat that performs well though. I would not be put off by 50' though. 60' would not be much different in handling 2 up.
Get any boat weighed before you buy it. Catamaran claims of light weight are often greatly exaggerated.
From my perspective sailing fast in light air is the real holly grail of a cruising multi. I am really not interested in sailing around fast in 30kn of wind.
One boat in Aus which may work is Windswept a southern ocean 56. Build a couple of queen berths outside the main cabin along the back beam, a good cockpit cover and you would have a very comfortable very fast cruiser.
I agree. I want to be able to move at a good pace in 5-15 and feel safe in 30.

Windswept is a flat out racer that has been detuned and dressed in sheeps clothing but it is still a race boat. I have my race boats.
Start at an Outremer and work from there and you will understand my search.
A monohull is still not out of the question. Galacia, Boreal, Dashwood etc. but I think I can be almost as safe but faster with a worthy multihull....

Racing this weekend. Visiting a couple of cruising boats next week. There was an Outremer 51 that had been superbly fitted out that I started to like a lot but it is an ad that has not been taken down...sold.

Of course, Chris is selling his own boat. That is on the list to think about.

It is hard when folks post videos of the Dragonfly 40. My attraction to that boat is deeply visceral. My gut likes it but my head says it is probably not the right boat. It is my head that will have to deal with being on watch at 3 am with 300 miles to go, the breeze picking up to 30, the barometer dropping and a low moving towards me, so my head has a fairly significant vote.
 
^^ when cruising you still have to be at certain places at certain times, so what bushsailor is saying is having a boat that is fast in light airs means that you can make good mileage in flatter more comfortable conditions. Anything over 20+ kts on the open ocean usually means a lot of bouncing and slamming which is not conducive to relaxed passage making. Most condomarans I’ve come across while passage making seem to wait for lighter conditions but end up motor sailing to get there before conditions get rough. Running the motor is not my idea of relaxed sailing.
 

[email protected]

Super Anarchist
1,149
523
43 south
True for all multihulls

Don't understand why that would be a sine qua non for cruising. Engines or just kick back and wait. What's your hurry on a cruise?
Why not just get a motorboat then? The sensation of sailing at or above windspeed in light airs is one of the (many) joys of sailing. I'll often spend the best part of a day simply sailing in light airs without a destination in mind, just from and returning to the marina.
 

toolbar

Member
278
63
Kiel, Germany
It's actually pretty hard to get a big (as in width * length) multi weighted. Most travel lifts in our area that are wide enough for our old boat are rated for something like 200 tons. The accuracy of the weight cells used in that application is probably not really optimized for high resolution between 9.5 and 10.5 tons.

Paul
 

Never was

Member
389
19
On our 471
I agree. I want to be able to move at a good pace in 5-15 and feel safe in 30.

Windswept is a flat out racer that has been detuned and dressed in sheeps clothing but it is still a race boat. I have my race boats.
Start at an Outremer and work from there and you will understand my search.
A monohull is still not out of the question. Galacia, Boreal, Dashwood etc. but I think I can be almost as safe but faster with a worthy multihull....

Racing this weekend. Visiting a couple of cruising boats next week. There was an Outremer 51 that had been superbly fitted out that I started to like a lot but it is an ad that has not been taken down...sold.

Of course, Chris is selling his own boat. That is on the list to think about.

It is hard when folks post videos of the Dragonfly 40. My attraction to that boat is deeply visceral. My gut likes it but my head says it is probably not the right boat. It is my head that will have to deal with being on watch at 3 am with 300 miles to go, the breeze picking up to 30, the barometer dropping and a low moving towards me, so my head has a fairly significant vote.
We have lived on our 25 year old Catana 471 full time for the past four years. She has proven to satisfy our needs for comfort & speed. The most wind I have had her in was 55 gusting 65. Mostly rolled up Genoa, and no main. Last month coming back from Newfoundland we had a positive COVID case on board. Rather than stop at St Pierre, with an uncertain reception, we elected to step across in what became a Gale with gusts to 48 (DDW) No problem under reduced sail.
In more moderate conditions we sail past Lagoons and Leopards like they are chained to a dock. I suspect a lightly loaded A47 would show us her heels, but I think our boat is less weight sensitive than cats with skinnier hulls. Like I said, we find it a good compromise. So far top speed has been 26.2, falling down a nice wave. At some point, I need to offload everything and leave some of the redundant tools and spare fasteners, etc… off the boat. We are likely pushing 30k# at present, with tools, spares, surfboards, foil boards, etc… On our first haul out, we shared a crane with a Lagoon 450. He launched, then we hauled. He asked the crane operator what the load cell reading was for our boat. Then he started yelling. We weighed 24,525 with half fuel and half water. His Lagoon (lightship) was 45,400. If you are really going to live on the boat, an early Outremer is probably too low volume. The newer 49/51 are a Barreau design, like our Catana. Slightly less volume; slightly lighter. Good boats. Eric LeRouge has several great designs. We have found Catana owners to be an amazing resource, as on any boat, things need repair and improvement. Many have become our close personal friends. I suspect the Outremer folks are similar. If you want space like our boat and more speed, look for an Etincelle 60. Chris’ boats are in between. They sail very nicely. I am not a fan of Fwd cockpits in general. I believe I t goes against human nature to want to go out into the fire hose to put in that reef you may need. On our boat, with its miles long reef lines, I can tuck in or shake out a reef from the safety and dryness of our aft cockpit. I did get a bit moist from the following winds and rain coming back from Newfie, but I was safe in the aft cockpit, reefing downwind.

Cat vs mono? Cat way easier on your body. Way more comfortable in marginal anchorages. Daggerboard cats easily attain 50TWA upwind. Nothing special, but we have our pointed many a cruising monohull upwind.
Favorite quote from a mono sailing friend while dining in our boat: Wife asks, “wow! Is that a shooting star?” Wally replies, “No, it’s our fking mast light!”

Good luck in your search!
 
We have lived on our 25 year old Catana 471 full time for the past four years. She has proven to satisfy our needs for comfort & speed. The most wind I have had her in was 55 gusting 65. Mostly rolled up Genoa, and no main. Last month coming back from Newfoundland we had a positive COVID case on board. Rather than stop at St Pierre, with an uncertain reception, we elected to step across in what became a Gale with gusts to 48 (DDW) No problem under reduced sail.
In more moderate conditions we sail past Lagoons and Leopards like they are chained to a dock. I suspect a lightly loaded A47 would show us her heels, but I think our boat is less weight sensitive than cats with skinnier hulls. Like I said, we find it a good compromise. So far top speed has been 26.2, falling down a nice wave. At some point, I need to offload everything and leave some of the redundant tools and spare fasteners, etc… off the boat. We are likely pushing 30k# at present, with tools, spares, surfboards, foil boards, etc… On our first haul out, we shared a crane with a Lagoon 450. He launched, then we hauled. He asked the crane operator what the load cell reading was for our boat. Then he started yelling. We weighed 24,525 with half fuel and half water. His Lagoon (lightship) was 45,400. If you are really going to live on the boat, an early Outremer is probably too low volume. The newer 49/51 are a Barreau design, like our Catana. Slightly less volume; slightly lighter. Good boats. Eric LeRouge has several great designs. We have found Catana owners to be an amazing resource, as on any boat, things need repair and improvement. Many have become our close personal friends. I suspect the Outremer folks are similar. If you want space like our boat and more speed, look for an Etincelle 60. Chris’ boats are in between. They sail very nicely. I am not a fan of Fwd cockpits in general. I believe I t goes against human nature to want to go out into the fire hose to put in that reef you may need. On our boat, with its miles long reef lines, I can tuck in or shake out a reef from the safety and dryness of our aft cockpit. I did get a bit moist from the following winds and rain coming back from Newfie, but I was safe in the aft cockpit, reefing downwind.

Cat vs mono? Cat way easier on your body. Way more comfortable in marginal anchorages. Daggerboard cats easily attain 50TWA upwind. Nothing special, but we have our pointed many a cruising monohull upwind.
Favorite quote from a mono sailing friend while dining in our boat: Wife asks, “wow! Is that a shooting star?” Wally replies, “No, it’s our fking mast light!”

Good luck in your search!
Thank you everyone. This is a great thread.
 

F18 Sailor

Super Anarchist
2,675
254
Annapolis, MD
I agree with comment about Atlantic's galley position. We like to cook, and Im not keen to be sweating down below while my guests are having cocktails on the deck. It is Chris White so you know there is a good reason. I dont know the reason but I suspect I would want to make the compromise and have the galley on the same level as the saloon.

The Gun Boat is out.
Rapido 50 is still in my peripheral vision. There is a lot to like about the concept. But it is still vaporware until I see the quality of a finished boat.

Remember I have my race boat. There is a difference between a fast passage speed and racing speed.

I am currently more interested in a used boat, outfitted by someone whose experience really contributed to the fitting out.

Mambo,

Yes, this was Ian's boat. Ian's description is mostly accurate, but again, it depends on your needs and standards. I didn't find it any less comfortable than a performance monohull. For that matter, the only boats that I've been on that were a noticeable step up are the Gunboat, HH62, Kinetic 62 and Swan 46. An Outremer 5X is a step up in terms of the saloon area, and cosmetically the fit and finish is probably a tad better, but I'm not sure it is practically. I haven't spent enough time on one to make that comparison.

The Atlantic series of boats were designed for serious passage making. Underway, I understand the galley down arrangement. It is safer, and leaves more space in the saloon for navigation and sailing (inside helm). At anchor, there is a benefit to not heating the entire saloon while cooking. For most, this is outweighed by the want to have whoever is cooking be part of the entertaining in the saloon.

I think you are on target with the dragonfly. I would buy a lightly used example from a good outfitter in Europe, and realize that you will have limited customer support stateside, but probably more than other brands.

I too like the Rapido, but so far it sounds like the build quality isn't quite there. I'm also of the opinion that at 40'+, folding trimarans don't make much sense structurally.
 

Wess

Super Anarchist
I think you are on target with the dragonfly. I would buy a lightly used example from a good outfitter in Europe, and realize that you will have limited customer support stateside, but probably more than other brands.

I too like the Rapido, but so far it sounds like the build quality isn't quite there. I'm also of the opinion that at 40'+, folding trimarans don't make much sense structurally.

Agree much of what you have posted in this thread. Good accurate stuff that jives w my experience. But have to ask... have you sailed the Dragonfly?

It will be interesting to see Bob's R40 when it gets here but yea I think I am on same page as you re folding. No interest if its for fitting into slip (more an issue in Europe); it only has benefit to me if it means it can easily be made road legal to get from US east coast to west coast and back and don't think that is the case here.
 
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F18 Sailor

Super Anarchist
2,675
254
Annapolis, MD
I haven't sailed or even seen the Dragonfly up close. The brochure and videos also make me smile, and I'm sure the build quality is up to snuff.

My 40 foot number is a rough cutoff. The Farrier style folding system works at close to this size, but I stand by demountable as a better solution for the U.S. For example, in airplane world, many wings can be detached at the root. They are even more weight sensitive than high performance boats, so there are ways to make this work that don't add much weight. Time? Sure, but it still allows the boat to be transported over land, and I think with careful packaging, you can get a high volume 40' tri onto a slightly oversized trailer (road-legal esque).
 

mpenman

Member
245
227
Pompano Beach
mpenman - Automatic, pendulum actuated mainsheet dumping systems were tried back in the 60’s somewhat as a consequence of Bill Howell flipping Golden Cockerel - a 43’ Cat - in flat water, in the Solent in 25 knots puffing to maybe 30 - not a hurricane - racing with a full crew. Nobody really persevered even though Hepplewhite made a commercially available system. In survival conditions for your boat and mine (St Francis 44) there won’t be any sails aloft!
I'll still take the upside up system. Had a squall come up on us and hit us with 45-50 knots for a period of 5 minutes then back to nice easy 20. Being able to dump is helpful, as is having an automatic dump too. St Francis 44 is a fine, fine boat. Charted one many, many moons ago. That is not a barge if it has decent sails and is not overloaded. It will point decently.
My, somewhat modified cruiser is not a barge and absolutely does make those speeds. On our return from the Bahamas this spring we averaged 8.7 across the Little Bahama bank and maxed at 16.9 under the asymmetric (flat water so no surfing or currents helping) then averaged 9.5 to Port Canaveral overnight maxing at 16.5. Crew was me (70), my wife (69) and a friend (65) - Old Farts Outing! Nobody tended sheets, all slept and ate well. 70% of the displacement on the lee hull, 30% on the windward - easily gauged on this 17,000 pound boat checking stern immersion/elevation while still REAL safe on the stability curve.
St Francis is a decent sailing boat. I owned a 48. I think that the 44's are faster because the 48/50 was just a little too heavy. Great to hear that you are out frigging sailing and enjoying it. I love that. 8.7 knots are decent average speeds as that is 200+ miles per day. Crossing the gulf stream gives you a nice push if you're heading north.

I understand your displacement numbers a little better now. Not sure what to do with them though :) .
Righting moments on cats are huge, but so are increasing wind speeds. Our boat is 32 feet wide. The righting moment of the windward hull with an additional 100 gallons of water is well errr big ;)
Multihulls DO flip.

ALL losses and claims contribute to the record but multis tend to be rated irrespective of quality.

A couple died on a 42’ Chris White cat that flipped in a Chicago-Mac. I had a discussion with a delivery skipper recently who told me he thought half the fleet of the Atlantic 42’s had - seems far fetched but he is a real person and that’s what he said - irrespective it pays to fear the worst and pay respect offshore.
Multihulls flip as do unimarans, which don't float as well.

Your delivery skipper must have a beef with the 42's because his comment is 100% totally incorrect. The 42 that capsized on Lake Michigan was recovered and is still sailing to this day.
 

mpenman

Member
245
227
Pompano Beach
Chris’ boats are in between. They sail very nicely. I am not a fan of Fwd cockpits in general. I believe I t goes against human nature to want to go out into the fire hose to put in that reef you may need. On our boat, with its miles long reef lines, I can tuck in or shake out a reef from the safety and dryness of our aft cockpit. I did get a bit moist from the following winds and rain coming back from Newfie, but I was safe in the aft cockpit, reefing downwind.
Forward cockpit being a fire hose is an old wives' tale quite frankly. If you're pounding away in 10-15ft seas at 30 AWA and taking some serious spray, head down 20 degrees, slow down and put a reef in. I hate getting wet!!!
Been on pretty much every boat imaginable, it's the best setup for cruising IMHO, but it does take away from salon space.
I did love the 471's when they were first launched. Just a fine looking boat quite frankly, still has great lines.

Curiously, how do you reef the tack?
 

CapDave

Member
390
315
Sint Maarten
This is more than academic for me.

I am transitioning from a sail boat racer who likes to go cruising on vacation to a cruiser who will go sail boat racing for my vacations.

I am clear on one thing. I will always keep my race boat and my cruising boat entirely separate. The compromise doesn't work for me. When it comes to the racing, I understand my addiction. It is reasonably under control . Two identical boats, one in Europe and one in the USA, racing with and against life long friends.

The choice of cruising boat for the next chapter in my life is not under control at the moment.
Here are my criteria:

1. I want to be able to make fast passages. Even if it is a day sail, I like to get there in 4 hours rather than 6 hours. If I am running from the Galapagos to Marquesas, I want to make a fast passage. I have not defined the pace precisely yet. Should I be looking for 200+ nm days? Not sure yet. There is no overlap with the speeds I accomplish when racing. I want a fast ,comfortable passage not the fastest passage. Prompt not terrifying. I have plenty of opportunities to scare myself when racing in the vicinity of rescue.

2. The vessel should be a joy to sail. I love everything about sailing, the feel of the helm in my hand and the feel of the deck under my toes. It is the most relaxing feeling in the world and I want a boat that conveys that feeling. I know that there are some fast cruising mono hulls that convey that joy. I know that racing multihulls offer joy (because I have raced on them) I know that condomarans do not. I have not sailed on a performance cruising multihull.

3. I want to be safe and I want my family to be safe. I know two things. One, I intend to avoid sailing in 40+ knots of breeze.....Two, If you sail for long enough you will get caught by 40+ knots of breeze.

4. (a) The saloon and daily living space cannot be the cave. If you are sailing in beautiful parts of the world , part of the experience is being surrounded by the beauty when you are sitting in the saloon with the family, not just when you are at the helm
(b) I can sleep in a cave (aka hull) just fine. (As long as the motion is joyful).
Steve and Liz Dashwood have done this with their monohulls so have Boreal and some others. The performance cruising cats have done this....but I have never sailed a performance cruising cat.

5. The boat has to be really well set up for short-handed sailing. Chris White made a really wise comment on the video. Most cruising boats are sailed by couples, which means they are sailed single-handed because someone is sleeping.
My accommodation requirements are less demanding than most. We have one son at college. I like to think he will join us from time to time and I hope he will bring his significant other. It is too far out to contemplate his children. We will have a couple of friends or family from time to time because so many of our friends and all my family are sailors. But the length of the boat is determined by my sailing requirements not the number of berths.

6. Length. I differ from the post about volume. Length affects sailing. I havent drawn a line in the sand but somewhere around 50+/- gives me performance, safety, comfort and single handed maneuverability

So I am somewhat flailing. One Friday I am looking at higher speed expedition yachts and the next reading up on performance cruising multi-hulls. The good news is that list is gradually getting shorter. The bad news is that it is gradually getting more expensive.

I am adding Chris White to the list.

Best

VMK
The boat you are describing is an Outremer 51. There are a number of them for sale at the moment, though the prices seem a little unrealistic to me now that the market is loosening a little.

On the way to buying our Atlantic 57 we looked at and sailed everything remotely in the envelope, including Catanas and Outremers. I did a delivery from Tortola to Norfolk VA on an Outremer 51 to qualify the boat, completely fell in love with it. In the end it was a little too small for us, so we passed.

We really like the galley down on the A57 - bigger galley and bigger salon. And the cook isn't entirely sequestered, there's still a decent connection to the salon. And you don't have the kitchen in your face 24/7. We love the forward cockpit, it was a major reason we chose the boat. We love having three distinctly different on-deck areas - forward, inside, aft - each with its own sweet spots depending on conditions. We love the way the boat sails - in light air we can generally sail at or above AWS. In heavy air the performance is beyond belief thrilling.

Remember that even a really really active cruising boat is still at rest 80-90% of the time. The faster it sails, the fewer hours underway. Sailing ability, especially light air sailing ability, is table stakes for cruising people who like to sail. Comfort and convenience in the harbor is the rest of the iceberg. If a boat can't carry that comfort/convenience/toys/spares/etc. payload without ruining performance, it's not a great cruising choice.
 

mpenman

Member
245
227
Pompano Beach
The boat you are describing is an Outremer 51. There are a number of them for sale at the moment, though the prices seem a little unrealistic to me now that the market is loosening a little.

On the way to buying our Atlantic 57 we looked at and sailed everything remotely in the envelope, including Catanas and Outremers. I did a delivery from Tortola to Norfolk VA on an Outremer 51 to qualify the boat, completely fell in love with it. In the end it was a little too small for us, so we passed.

We really like the galley down on the A57 - bigger galley and bigger salon. And the cook isn't entirely sequestered, there's still a decent connection to the salon. And you don't have the kitchen in your face 24/7. We love the forward cockpit, it was a major reason we chose the boat. We love having three distinctly different on-deck areas - forward, inside, aft - each with its own sweet spots depending on conditions. We love the way the boat sails - in light air we can generally sail at or above AWS. In heavy air the performance is beyond belief thrilling.

Remember that even a really really active cruising boat is still at rest 80-90% of the time. The faster it sails, the fewer hours underway. Sailing ability, especially light air sailing ability, is table stakes for cruising people who like to sail. Comfort and convenience in the harbor is the rest of the iceberg. If a boat can't carry that comfort/convenience/toys/spares/etc. payload without ruining performance, it's not a great cruising choice.
Dave is far more eloquent than I will ever be. He's spot on with his assessment of both the galley down (which we liked on our 57) and the forward cockpit. I would not own a boat without one, especially at anchor. He has an awesome setup on his boat with a fixed awning that covers the forward cockpit of the boat and allows continual shade and to keep the forward door (i.e. aircon) open even whilst it's pouring rain. I agree with him that the forward cockpit is why we chose the boat too.

Excellent explanation from @CapDave
 
Dave is far more eloquent than I will ever be. He's spot on with his assessment of both the galley down (which we liked on our 57) and the forward cockpit. I would not own a boat without one, especially at anchor. He has an awesome setup on his boat with a fixed awning that covers the forward cockpit of the boat and allows continual shade and to keep the forward door (i.e. aircon) open even whilst it's pouring rain. I agree with him that the forward cockpit is why we chose the boat too.

Excellent explanation from @CapDave
Thank you @CapDave and @mpenman

As mentioned the Atlantic 55/57 and the Outremer 51 have been on the short list for a couple of weeks.
The right way to determine if the attributes of the forward cockpit, or the tillers on the Outremer appeal to me are to sail in them. Im working on that. At the same time I am still pruning my list at a slightly faster pace than I am adding to it . But I cannot spend too long. Carpe Diem.
 

boardhead

Anarchist
Mambo Kings - seeking a better sailing experience on your voyaging home would fundamentally lead you to a tri rather than a cat BUT there has been a great deal of development in the pursuit of well performing offshore cruising cats and very little for trimarans.

For me the start of your search would list the necessary payload to equip the boat with everything you feel is needed aboard while achieving the performance you desire. By the very nature of one versus two load carrying hulls the trimaran option would be a longer, wider vessel.

Judging by the catamaran short list that appears to interest you a trimaran equivalent would have to be a new, custom build breaking new ground - or maybe Finn?

When I was thirty years younger I made my list and built a forty footer which delivered for me on all fronts but nothing like her has or likely will be available as a turn key purchase and your needs suggest fifty footer at least.

My referring to my St Francis as a barge is true for me compared to the tri. I almost never helm the cat offshore where the tri was SO MUCH FUN but you would need to give up a LOT of cat endowed creature comforts.
 

boardhead

Anarchist
Correction - that list was made thirty five years ago, launch was thirty after a four year build!

The Condor 40 offered to the public the year prior to making that list was about as good a production offering as we have seen but with a launch weight that well exceeded the estimated fully loaded weight.

You should check out Dazcat also, might be your pick.
 

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