Chris White the new Atlantic 72 and follow-up of the capsized Atlantic 57 Leopard

CapDave

Member
407
331
Sint Maarten
When the course is straight upwind, & you know how to do it, motor sailing is the quickest method, & easiest on the boat/equipment/crew.
I've sailed a lot of boats like that. But my current boat generally isn't like that. With the right sail area and trim, adding an engine doesn't help much or at all....she's very quick upwind, and the motion is pretty good. When it gets nautical we actually have to undercanvas her for comfort or she'll start launching off the waves at 10+ knots. We could motorsail with main alone pointing somewhat higher, but our VMG would actually be lower unless we used both engines at high throttle, and then the motion isn't good - sailing her is better.
 

Wess

Super Anarchist
I've sailed a lot of boats like that. But my current boat generally isn't like that. With the right sail area and trim, adding an engine doesn't help much or at all....she's very quick upwind, and the motion is pretty good. When it gets nautical we actually have to undercanvas her for comfort or she'll start launching off the waves at 10+ knots. We could motorsail with main alone pointing somewhat higher, but our VMG would actually be lower unless we used both engines at high throttle, and then the motion isn't good - sailing her is better.
Exact same thing with our tri. Much faster and more comfortable to sail upwind in any breeze. Only time engine is faster is in flat water and breeze less than 5 knots.
 

mpenman

Member
251
234
Pompano Beach
Two races out of nine is not great and that was on corrected.
The results did not show elapsed times but I would suspect the Gunboat finished first in all and is, after all, the shorter craft.
Tosca won all races on time. They were also flying a hull in 10 knots of breeze. They were without a doubt faster than the 72 in lighter air. They were seriously quick. In our starts we had a tp52, volvo 70 and a volvo 65. The only time we led was when the wind piped up past 18knots and we were no longer under canvassed. We also only started to mix it up on the start on the last two days once we felt comfortable enough with the team to get more aggressive in the starts.

Interestingly enough we were actually the lighter boat vs Tosca. They were about 2-3k lbs heavier. They were much more organized around the cans and we did not fly our spinnaker for most races. We did on three races and those were pretty close on actual time. Finally, I can assure you that no other boat had a full-sized peloton bike on the aft deck, nor a reverso dinghy in the foreword hull, plus 8 surfboards, 4 kiteboards, 3 foil boards, 3 paddleboards and full complement of crap that goes along with cruising with 6 kids. Everyone was fed during and after each race and no crew went hungry or thirsty! :)

The bosses (i.e. wives) got Shane and I to enter the round the cans race at literally 9pm the evening prior as we had forgotten to check out for our departure the next day as the pShip was supposed to head back the Bahamas the following day. Had Dave Walworth not already had the measurements to our boat we would not have even been allowed to race.

What followed was an incredible week of sailing that those kids will never forget. Every kid was assigned a different position each day and other than mainsail trimming they did all sail changes, spinnaker launches, jib trimming, daggerboard lowering/raises and course calling. The older boys were assigned course duties (which they performed to perfection). Not noted in the race results except perhaps the DQ by Ocean Breeze and the subsequent protest by Amber Sail was that our last gate was incorrectly sailed by every boat except ours because our kids did not really know the racing rules correctly and sailed the printed course, even though there was a mistake in it. So our kids will tell you that technically they won 3 races.;)

What was awesome to see was the kids cheered for literally every single boat that they saw come by and even harder for their archrival Tosca!!!

Alex, Ken and the Tosca team were really cool about supporting the kids and Alex was always high fiving whenever he'd see them. Alex gave our crew a tour of Tosca after the race and showed them what they did during the races. For the kids it was more about being allowed to race and participate than anything else. Getting the two wins made it even sweeter.
 

mpenman

Member
251
234
Pompano Beach
3 / Your comments re floating hotels show little understanding of the diversity of people out there living the dream. For those that don’t prioritise sailing as highly as you , do not need to be ridiculed for their choices. Each to their own. A cruising boat does need to perform at anchor
@CapDave can defend himself no doubt, but he's a very, very well-versed skipper and sailor who's sailed a lot of miles.
However I'll chime in, because many of the boats that Dave alludes too are basically charter boats that are being repurposed for cruising, which is not a bad thing per se, but the boats are not performance cruisers.

I think it's more difficult and more expensive to choose a boat that sails well and but there are more than a few that do it well. Balance, Outremer, Chris White, ORC series, HH, etc.

What I see on many cruising boats is a couple or family that is cruising because dad/mom wants to do it. Normally there is one adult person who is not as well versed in sailing and they are definitely anxious whilst cruising. They'll do a 1-2 year try it out and then move on. The folks that keep a boat long term as part of their lives normally almost always end up with a performance cruising boat as they want to enjoy the art of getting somewhere slowly at great expense whilst forgoing any motors.

@Wess puts it succinctly, most of the better sailing boats almost always are quicker sailing than motoring if the wind is greater than 6-8 knots.
 
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Zonker

Super Anarchist
9,754
5,723
Canada
LOL, yes, where is that place where its always 10-12 on the beam, with flat seas and 75F air and water temps.
West coast of Madagascar except about 85F air temps and water temps around 80F. Every morning you tack out on the SE offshore breeze, at around 12 noon the wind shuts off for 15 minutes and you have lunch. Then the land has heated up enough that the wind changes to onshore NW and you tack or gybe over and head back to the coast. It was lovely. It was so consistent

Broad reaching both directions. Scale exaggerated for effect.

1666628386260.png
 

MultiThom

Super Anarchist
1,751
396
Benicia, CA
LOL, yes, where is that place where its always 10-12 on the beam, with flat seas and 75F air and water temps.
If you read the Hornblower yarns-especially when he was in the Caribbean, you'd think it was wonderful sailing no matter where he was. Off shore (land breeze) every morning, then catch the sea breeze once you clear the breakwater.
 

bushsailor

Anarchist
693
193
QLD Australia
Tosca won all races on time. They were also flying a hull in 10 knots of breeze. They were without a doubt faster than the 72 in lighter air. They were seriously quick. In our starts we had a tp52, volvo 70 and a volvo 65. The only time we led was when the wind piped up past 18knots and we were no longer under canvassed. We also only started to mix it up on the start on the last two days once we felt comfortable enough with the team to get more aggressive in the starts.

Interestingly enough we were actually the lighter boat vs Tosca. They were about 2-3k lbs heavier. They were much more organized around the cans and we did not fly our spinnaker for most races. We did on three races and those were pretty close on actual time. Finally, I can assure you that no other boat had a full-sized peloton bike on the aft deck, nor a reverso dinghy in the foreword hull, plus 8 surfboards, 4 kiteboards, 3 foil boards, 3 paddleboards and full complement of crap that goes along with cruising with 6 kids. Everyone was fed during and after each race and no crew went hungry or thirsty! :)

The bosses (i.e. wives) got Shane and I to enter the round the cans race at literally 9pm the evening prior as we had forgotten to check out for our departure the next day as the pShip was supposed to head back the Bahamas the following day. Had Dave Walworth not already had the measurements to our boat we would not have even been allowed to race.

What followed was an incredible week of sailing that those kids will never forget. Every kid was assigned a different position each day and other than mainsail trimming they did all sail changes, spinnaker launches, jib trimming, daggerboard lowering/raises and course calling. The older boys were assigned course duties (which they performed to perfection). Not noted in the race results except perhaps the DQ by Ocean Breeze and the subsequent protest by Amber Sail was that our last gate was incorrectly sailed by every boat except ours because our kids did not really know the racing rules correctly and sailed the printed course, even though there was a mistake in it. So our kids will tell you that technically they won 3 races.;)

What was awesome to see was the kids cheered for literally every single boat that they saw come by and even harder for their archrival Tosca!!!

Alex, Ken and the Tosca team were really cool about supporting the kids and Alex was always high fiving whenever he'd see them. Alex gave our crew a tour of Tosca after the race and showed them what they did during the races. For the kids it was more about being allowed to race and participate than anything else. Getting the two wins made it even sweeter.
That is a great story. Hopefully you do more race weeks with your boat and the kids. It is not necessarily about winning either just having fun.
 




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