CIGS Solar Panels - any experience?

[occams_razor]

Does anyone have any experience with CIGS solar panels in general and/or BougeRV in particular (https://www.bougerv.com/products/200w-flexible-solar-panel)? The technology seems real (https://www.nrel.gov/pv/copper-indium-gallium-diselenide-solar-cells.html), but the company/panels/pricing seems too good to be true. The website doesn't instill me with confidence, 8 billion popups in the first 10 seconds....

 

[eliboat]

first link didn’t work for me 404/forbidden… could be my vpn. As far as boat solar goes, I’ve always gone with cheap Chinese semi flexible panels with sun power cells. They have all worked very well, and replacing them is relatively painless financially when it comes time to do so. They are cheap enough that I can’t see the benefit of shelling out a lot more (5x)for Solbian or another “marine” brand using the same cells. There is no question that they are a bit more robust, but still not worth it IMO. If I was to do a Vendee or something, then I would get the more expensive panels, so long as I had a good sponsor!

 

[occams_razor]

Link above is bad, this should work: https://www.bougerv.com/products/200w-flexible-solar-panel

 

[penumbra]

I did a bunch of digging on this and am thinking of taking the plunge on these this spring. It seems all the good flex panel makers are getting out of the business (SunPower as an example). My guess is the RV/marine markets are too small and DIY to make much money when subsidies and scale are in rigid panels.

It looks like SunPower is only making 100w units, which are less flexible and much cheaper. Renogy is going to 200w, which feels like a solid backup on the BougeRV.

Xantrex and Solbian make some really nice products, but they are super expensive.

I'm going to make 2 banks, one on the dodger and one on the bimini. Maybe I'll do one in CIGS and the other in something else.

 

[SolGato]

I did a bunch of digging on this and am thinking of taking the plunge on these this spring. It seems all the good flex panel makers are getting out of the business (SunPower as an example). My guess is the RV/marine markets are too small and DIY to make much money when subsidies and scale are in rigid panels.

It looks like SunPower is only making 100w units, which are less flexible and much cheaper. Renogy is going to 200w, which feels like a solid backup on the BougeRV.

Xantrex and Solbian make some really nice products, but they are super expensive.

I'm going to make 2 banks, one on the dodger and one on the bimini. Maybe I'll do one in CIGS and the other in something else.

SunPower is rebranding their Flex line under the same name as their cells -Maxeon, and they have/will be introducing larger 300W or so panels.

Also some of the former employees split off when the company moved production to Mexico I believe, and started their own line using SunPowers Maxeon cells but with one major improvement in that they covered the entire footprint of the panel with cells except for one corner where the junction box is located, instead of wasting a bunch of space for the brand logo like the Sunpower panels, so they output more power per sqft. Pricing was a little more, but more or less inline with SunPower Flex Series.

Can’t remember the brand name of the offshoot company. Will have to look around, but the Rep I used to work with shared this info with me and send me a catalog.

Also keep in mind there is often an advantage depending on your application to using more panels and more charge controllers and paralleling arrays together with regard to shading, it also provides redundancy, and smaller charge controllers like Victron MPPT chargers can for example be setup to be networked together making managing multiple paralleled chargers more manageable. Smaller chargers are also reasonably priced, so keeping a spare on hand won’t require breaking the piggy bank.

 

[penumbra]

SunPower is rebranding their Flex line under the same name as their cells -Maxeon, and they have/will be introducing larger 300W or so panels.

Also some of the former employees split off when the company moved production to Mexico I believe, and started their own line using SunPowers Maxeon cells but with one major improvement in that they covered the entire footprint of the panel with cells except for one corner where the junction box is located, instead of wasting a bunch of space for the brand logo like the Sunpower panels, so they output more power per sqft. Pricing was a little more, but more or less inline with SunPower Flex Series.

Can’t remember the brand name of the offshoot company. Will have to look around, but the Rep I used to work with shared this info with me and send me a catalog.

Also keep in mind there is often an advantage depending on your application to using more panels and more charge controllers and paralleling arrays together with regard to shading, it also provides redundancy, and smaller charge controllers like Victron MPPT chargers can for example be setup to be networked together making managing multiple paralleled chargers more manageable. Smaller chargers are also reasonably priced, so keeping a spare on hand won’t require breaking the piggy bank.

Great info! Thanks! The grapevine suggested they've left a few distributors in the lurch and have struggled with their supply chain, like many post-pandemic manufacturers. All rumor, but the announcements and subsequent lack of availability have fallen in line with that.

One of my dilemmas is a 24v house system. It looks like I need at least 2 panels in series to get up to sufficient voltage, unless I use a buck converter. I'm open to suggestions!

 

[SolGato]

Really all depends on what you are looking to accomplish, but for a basic 24V house bank I would go with a MPPT charger like a Victron with a few 100W panels feeding it in Series.

If you have multiple places you can mount panels that will see sun differently early and late, but more equally during mid day, and you can afford to install two independent systems, get X2 chargers and feed each a few panels so you have redundancy and overlapping, while also some early and late harvesting. Or you can manually track the sun by using a articulating mount.

Voltage-wise, with the MPPT chargers you want to feed them as much Voltage as they can handle leaving some headroom. For say the 75/15 (75 volts in/15 amps out max) Victron models, that might be as many as X3 100W panels in Series.

Keep in mind with the above charger recommendation, that it “wakes up” each day as soon as the panels produce about 5V more than the voltage of the bank at the start of the day cycle.

So if you use a bunch of power during the night like most, ideally you would like the charger to wake up and start replenishing as early as possible. That means making sure you are feeding the charger as much power/voltage as possible so it gets to work as early as possible.

Same for the end of day, as soon as voltage falls below that threshold, the charger shuts off.

So keep this in mind with your power consumption and use, and location and orientation of panels, and how you create your arrays, and whether you should have multiple paralleled systems.

Another handy feature of the smaller Victron MPPT chargers is the Load Output which is basically a switchable/programmable power source for small loads like lighting, usb charging, etc.. In conjunction with a 24V to 12V converter, you can use the Load Output to power things like those mentioned above by a set schedule or even remotely via Bluetooth.

Anyway, lots of info out there. My biggest recommendation is to avoid the cheap stuff. It usually isn’t cut out for a marine environment and will cause more headaches.

And usually the first rule is to do a consumption evaluation, but with boats you can typically only fit so many panels onboard mounted securely without interfering with functionality of the boat, so that becomes the limiting factor and typically most people try to install as many as they can once they get used to how nice it is to harness “free” energy.

You might check with Sunpowered Yachts. I think they are a dealer for both brands and sell direct and on Amazon.

 

[penumbra]

Really all depends on what you are looking to accomplish, but for a basic 24V house bank I would go with a MPPT charger like a Victron with a few 100W panels feeding it in Series.

Thanks! This is all where my head is at, which is great to confirm I'm not nuts. For space, I pretty much have the bimini (still under construction) and the dodger. The dodger is low and very long - standard for Sweden Yachts, but weird as compared to US boats like Tartan and Sabre. I think I can get 3 100w panels on it, and hoping to have one on each side and another in the middle. My idea is to try for 2 panels unshaded at any moment. The bimini should be wide open.

I'm hesitant to run the panels over the structure of the canvas. Any opinions on that? Seems to me like going up and over a bar is going to add a lot of stress on the panel, which is one of the reasons I liked the CIGS idea.

I've been in contact with Sunpowered Yachts. I should touch base with them again to see what the latest is.

 

[SolGato]

Ahh yes, I forgot to mention that using a backing material is important with back contact panels like SunPower as they can get hot and will mar finishes, plus heat reduces efficiency and lifespan.

I like to use corrugated plastic or multiwall polycarbonate. Both are popular for outdoor signage, greenhouses, etc. The fluted open structure provides some air gap/flow to draw away heat so it isn’t being transferred directly to a finish or fabric material.

A backing material will also add more rigidity to the panels if mounting to the top of a bimini. Flexible panels tend to get more flexi when warm, and ideally you want them to remain more convex than concave, not only for harnessing sun but also to keep them clean and from water pooling up which then attract dirt.

Regarding soft Bimini mounting, I don’t have direct experience as I’m not a big fan. I prefer ridged mounting. But my suggestion would be to add some additional tubular support to your frame if possible. They make all kinds of stainless, aluminum, and plastic bimini frame and handrail interconnects and fittings. Fiberglass tent poles might also work well and able to be removed easily without adding a lot of additional weight.

Panel/charger wise, figure out the max you think you can mount (sounds like 3) and get a charger big enough to handle them even if you only start out with 2.

If you can do 4 split into two zones/arrays, consider X2 systems.

Or if you can fit X2 larger panels that have a high enough V output, do a dual parallel system and layout the panels so one panel gets morning, the other late, and both mid.

The orientation is relating to the sun of course and how your boat tends to point when moored or slipped if that when you want to see consistent charging performance.

If you’re more interested in production while underway, layout according to sail shading, typical routes, tacks, etc..

For example on my solar electric catamaran, the system is split into two independent paralleled arrays front to back on a hard Bimini that is independently articulate-able front to back with 3 panels along front and 3 along back each making up a system.

Your idea of one per side and one across front should work well voltage wise and keep a single charger fed just enough to move energy back into the battery if say one and a half panels had full voltage, 30V or so.

Figure about 4 amps of output per panel for a 24V system, so a 75/15 charger is a good match for X3 panels in Series as it leaves some voltage headroom and you aren’t wasting any power output with a max charger output limit of 15A.

So if you had a battery capacity of 100ah with say 50ah of usable capacity, it would take 4.5-8.5 hours to replenish.

If you think there’s a possibility you might be able to find room for another panel later down the line, get the 100/20.

Also be sure to get the Smart versions of the MPPT’s with Bluetooth.

Not sure where you are located, but if by chance in the California Bay Area, I have a bunch of 110W Flex SunPower panels there left over from a crate of them I purchased with most of them unspoken for. Thought I might use them on my big Catamaran build, but decided to go Bi-facial rigid instead as I can afford the extra weight and will use them as the Bimini structure.

Also there is another member on here that reached out to me that is purchasing a bunch of Flex panels in bulk for a project who said he will have a number left over and offered them, but he may be looking to sell them as a lot. I already have the ones in CA so I didn’t get into the details. They are a different brand.

 

[penumbra]

Not sure where you are located, but if by chance in the California Bay Area, I have a bunch of 110W Flex SunPower panels there left over from a crate of them I purchased with most of them unspoken for. Thought I might use them on my big Catamaran build, but decided to go Bi-facial rigid instead as I can afford the extra weight and will use them as the Bimini structure.

Also there is another member on here that reached out to me that is purchasing a bunch of Flex panels in bulk for a project who said he will have a number left over and offered them, but he may be looking to sell them as a lot. I already have the ones in CA so I didn’t get into the details. They are a different brand.t

Thanks for all the food for thought! I don't love the canvas mounting either, but it seems like if I'm going to that effort, I should go rigid and get max capacity.

I'm in NYC, but maybe it still makes sense with shipping to take them off your hands. I'll get the canvas up in 2 weeks or so, template it all out and see what I can jam on there.

 

[DDW]

One issue for a 24V system is 24V panels are getting very hard to find and are large when you find them. Putting two 12V panels in series means double the chances for shading. I had smallish 24V panels from Sunware, pretty much every one is delaminated, and I cannot find replacements anywhere near the right size. There are now available boost converters from which you can charge a 24 system with 12V panels. This may open of flexibility on panel selection or placement. Since MPPT controllers are already buck converters, the efficiency is not much different.

 

[SolGato]

Just saw that SunPowered Yachts has started getting some of the new big Maxeon branded SunPower panels in stock. FYI

 

[penumbra]

Just saw that SunPowered Yachts has started getting some of the new big Maxeon branded SunPower panels in stock. FYI

mmm tasty. makes me wish I set up for rigid panels. Just makes me excited about cold beer on the mooring without listening to the damnable Volvo.

 

[penumbra]

I decided to go with a blend. The BougeRV panels are more expensive and significantly larger than the SunPower units.

I put 2 100W BourgeRV CIGS panels on the dodger as they claim to be better in shaded circumstances (boom+stackpack). The canvas guys sewed a zipper and velcro flap into the sides and the mount is awesome. They are super flexible and crazy light. They seem to be well built, but time will tell.

On the bimimi, I put 4 100W SunPower units. Due to time and space constraints, the canvas guys put grommets and leather patches and suggested zip tying them in. It's certainly a less attractive approach. The panels are much heavier, thicker and less flexible.

I got them all up, but haven't wired them, which I will do this weekend. If anyone is interested, I can do some less than scientific tests and report back.

 

[jtdavey]

I was going to go down the CIGS route too, the shading tolerance sounds like the perfect solution for a boat application. I was talked out of them for a couple of reasons, but this may have changed in the last 6 months.
1) My Electrician suggests they experience significant Delamination within the first 12 months.
2) A few bad reviews on the diysolarforum.com regarding performance and delamination
3) Size - they were too long for my installation

Really keen to hear the latest on these as I think they could be a good option for shading.