Code Zero on J boat sprit

[Quickstep192]

I'm interested in finding a light air headsail that can be flown without having to remove the jib from the furler and putting on a new sail (I know, I know - lazy) 

I've been reading over posts where people are talking about flying Code Zero sails, but based on what I've read so far, a Code Zero is a no-go on a J Boat bowsprit because the sprit can't handle the luff tension. Since some of the posts pre-date the production of my J/95, I thought I'd re-raise the topic.

Can you fly a Code Zero on a J/95 Sprit?

Are there other solutions for light air? 
 

BTW, I'm talking about daysailing, not racing. 

 

[JL92S]

You would have to consider a bobstay for the sprit on a J95. I have sailed a J95 a few times and once in quite a lot of breeze and there was a lot of sprit flex even with a small kite (the sprit snapped on a test with Yachts & Yachting magazine). You could also look at mounting a code 0 tack on the stem of the boat instead of the sprit. It’s isn’t as optimal but like you said, you’re not racing

 

[danstanford]

Blur who you will see referenced often here, has rigged up a bobstay about half the way out the pole on their J/111. It isn't rigid so they can retract the pole with it still on. Peter would likely share some info if you asked.

 

[rustylaru]

J 95's look like a lot of fun.

Fitting a bobstay is not hard. I have done it twice on Corsair Tri by adding a u bolt just above the waterline with a white oak back block epoxied. The lower down you get it to the waterline the better. A piece of 1/4 spectra with a lashing on one one end.    I will be adding one soon to my J32. The Anchor well drain holes might be able to be reinforced on the inside with less cosmetic consequence, and  a loop pushed though and a dog bone. It's only a day project with the right planning.

Code zeros are fun to fly. They certainly can keep you entertained on light air days going up wind and heavy air days of the wind.

https://www.colligomarine.com/products has some lashing blocks that are sexy. John is great to talk to about stuff like this.

 

[Blur]

On J/111 BLUR we were told by J/boats that we could run a code max 1 meter out on the sprit. So we did a setup that worked great with both a 75% code, a 50% code and a Jib Zero (essentially a big jib). 

More on that setup here: "Why tack the code halfway on the sprit?"

But for this season we looked at a new cableless code, or Helix as North Sails call them, and decided that the lower loads would allow us to run it from the end of the sprit. Seen here on Ramrod:

So, in conclusion:

If you want a real light upwind sail, we're talking about a Jib Zero that needs lots of tension. I would run that 1 meter out like we did. But if it's not for racing I would stay away, since you run into many things (you'll probably want a 2:1 halyard).

For fun daysailing I would ge a modern 50% code, put a bobstay on and run it from the end of the sprit. So much easier. Will work kind of "upwindish" but also be super fun on a tight reach. 

Here's our new setup during Roles Middle Sea Race:

 

[221J]

Since you are lazy, you might consider a smaller than full size Code 0.  Max size Code 0's require attention when sailing and have a limited range of wind speed and wind range.  A smaller version might suit the lazy sailor better as well as reducing the load on your sprit.  Also, if you aren't racing the sail you don't need sail to rate as a spinnaker.  That could allow for design latitude outside of a Code sail.

 

[IMR]

I have run a code zero and large roach genoa on the j125. We had to build a bobstay and beef up the pole out system and cleat. 

 

[longbeachsailor]

@Blur do you have a torsion cable in that north cableless code zero? We have one without one and the furling can be tricky 

 

[Blur]

@Blur do you have a torsion cable in that north cableless code zero? We have one without one and the furling can be tricky 

Yup, there's a cable in there, and we're experimenting with the proper load distribution between sail/cable. Right now we're probably at 60/40 or 70/30. Top-down furling works perfectly. 

Our setup below: Profurl NEX 2.5 + Facnor FX+ 2500 swivel.

 

[Monkey]

A J92 I race on runs a fractional zero tacked to the middle of the sprit without a bobstay. Going on three years now, there’s been no issues. 

 

[longbeachsailor]

@Blur nice setup! Our north rep was weary about putting a cable in, for concern of limiting the efficiency of the luff projection. But top down is super reliable, nice to have assurance of a good furl every time offshore…

not sure if ramrod has a cable in theirs hard to tell from the picture

 

[Quickstep192]

A J92 I race on runs a fractional zero tacked to the middle of the sprit without a bobstay. Going on three years now, there’s been no issues. 

I don't know if this question is daft, but could that same thing be accomplished by just deploying the sprit halfway?

 

[Monkey]

I don't know if this question is daft, but could that same thing be accomplished by just deploying the sprit halfway?

Logical question. We use a strop to hold the zero halfway and fully extend the sprit just so everything is always repeatable. That way halyard tension only relies on the halyard, and not trying to figure it if you set the sprit just right. There’s also a turboed Melges 30 in our fleet with the same set up. I’ll most likely do the same this year with my Mount Gay 30. My current zero relies on a fully extended sprit, but doesn’t have a bobstay. It has also removed one sprit already, so something has to change. Lol!

 

[JL92S]

Yup, there's a cable in there, and we're experimenting with the proper load distribution between sail/cable. Right now we're probably at 60/40 or 70/30. Top-down furling works perfectly. 

Our setup below: Profurl NEX 2.5 + Facnor FX+ 2500 swivel.

View attachment 478322

The new Toggle from Cyclops might be useful in finding cable tensions!

What we’re finding is yes you can make a sail furl without a cable but it isn’t reliable. The new future fibres hybrid cable I believe is smaller and is only there for the purpose of furling and nothing else. I’ve heard from customers that North have been selling them a “cable free code 0” for cruising that’s easy to maintain and easy to stow but the sail has still turned up with a fat Marlow furling cable in the luff and the thing doesn’t want to go back in it’s bag!

 

[Quickstep192]

But for this season we looked at a new cableless code, or Helix as North Sails call them, and decided that the lower loads would allow us to run it from the end of the sprit. Seen here on Ramrod:

I'm trying to figure out how the bobstay is fitted to the end of the sprit on RamRod. It looks like there's a loop around the sprit, then the line goes through the furler, then past the end of the sprit and then down to the stem. What I can't determine from the picture is how the bobstay is held in place on the end of the sprit. I'm also wondering if they'd use the same line for the chute. 
 

Any thoughts on how to rig the bobstay to the end of the sprit?

 

[George Dewey]

Any thoughts on how to rig the bobstay to the end of the sprit?

New England Yacht Rigging made this custom sprit end for my J/111. You can see the bobstay feeds into it. Inside the sprit is a system that automagically retracts the bobstay when we retract the sprit, and lets it feed out when we extend it. Of course, we always have to fully extend for any sail. My Code Zero is North (a slightly older design I think) with a top down furler. Under the drum is a shackle that we connect to that loop. 

Excuse the dock line and headsail feeder, this was taken at the slip, standing on the bow.

 

[Blur]

Top + left = SD Boatworks. Right bottom = Ramrod.

We attach the bobstay with a lashing over the outer end of the custom tack-line lead (seen above).

 

[Quickstep192]

View attachment 478473

Top + left = SD Boatworks. Right bottom = Ramrod.

We attach the bobstay with a lashing over the outer end of the custom tack-line lead (seen above).

Thanks for the detailed photos. Another possibly daft question: Can I mod the existing end in my sprit, or do I need to replace it? It appears to be some kind of high density plastic like HDPE. 

 

[Blur]

I guess you have the same sprit end as the J/111 (with the U-bolt)? I would be careful modifying it to much...

We got down to three alternatives:

1. Fasten a Dyneema-loop for the bobstay in the existing hardware. Would work for the bobstay, but would make it hard to use twin tackiness (we needed a 2:1 tackline to stabilize the furler
   
2. Maker a custom sprit end, like the ones above. But we don't have a local "boat works" and some Transpacific racers advised against Dyneema loops because of chafe. Works great for static loads, but 10 days to Hawaii is another matter.
   
3. Get the engineers in the crew to design a custom part that could be fitted inside the existing U-bolt. Many iterations later... The biggest benefit is that we get the code "inside" and the normal tackline for the genanser "outside" that aligns very well with the halyards on the J/111.