COLREG Survey - Familiarity with sailboat day signals

JohnMB

JohnMB

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LB 15 said:
You got a cite for that law? Where is this place, some third world shithole that is not a member of the IMO?
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No he sails on inland waters which are not governed by IRPCAS.
The navigation rules are byelaws set out by the Broads Authority under the Norfolk and Suffolk Broads Act 1988 (amended by the Broads Authority Act 2009).
The rules are based on IRPCAS (after all they are already written and tested) with some modifications for the local conditions.
 
LB 15

LB 15

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JohnMB said:
No he sails on inland waters which are not governed by IRPCAS.
The navigation rules are byelaws set out by the Broads Authority under the Norfolk and Suffolk Broads Act 1988 (amended by the Broads Authority Act 2009).
The rules are based on IRPCAS (after all they are already written and tested) with some modifications for the local conditions.
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But I thought he said they were tidal waters... But yeah that is allowed by members
Rule 1 (Application)

(a) These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.
(b) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of special rules made by an appropriate authority for roadsteads, harbours, rivers, lakes or inland waterways connected with the high seas and navigable by seagoing vessels. Such special rules shall conform as closely as possible to these Rules.
(c) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of any special rules made by the Government of any State with respect to additional station or signal lights, shapes or whistle signals for ships of war and vessels proceeding under convoy, or with respect to additional station or signal lights or shapes for fishing vessels engaged in fishing as a fleet. These additional station or signal lights, shapes or whistles shall, so far as possible, be such that they cannot be mistaken for any light, shape or signal authorised elsewhere under the rules.

So how do they differ from the IRPCS and why? Or is this just one of those odd laws you poms are so fond off like

It's still illegal to allow your pet to mate with a pet from the royal household.​

 
LB 15

LB 15

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FlyingCircus2 said:
Wait you guys hang that shit in your rigging like Christmas ornaments and we are the ass holes? Where are you going to hang it that it can be seen more than 1/2 of the time?
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'Where can best been seen' as the rule says. Who said you were arseholes because you don't understand the col regs? Ignorant perhaps but arsehole is a tad strong. I come across people like you all the time. Their normal defense of their ignorance is to say that they know that the 'Primary rule is that you must avoid a collision at all times'. Well, in fact there is no 'primary' rule that says that, the entire rules are designed with that outcome. And your ignorance may well get you killed one day.
 
T

The Q

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Norfolk. The original one
LB 15 said:
You got a cite for that law? Where is this place, some third world shithole that is not a member of the IMO?
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Norfolk and Suffolk Broads Act 1988

An Act to establish an authority to be known as the Broads Authority; to make provision with respect to its powers; to make provision with respect to the area commonly known as the Broads and with respect to the Great Yarmouth Port and Haven and its Commissioners; to provide for the making of...
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk
19 miles inland by river and we get a 2mph incoming tide and 4mph outgoing tide.
Recently the river reached 100% salt water at the other end of the village.
On the southern broads and rivers these used to go to Norwich 27miles inland by tidal river.
1670218972393.png

Only the lack of trade stopped them in the 1980s.
 
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LB 15

LB 15

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The Q said:

Norfolk and Suffolk Broads Act 1988

An Act to establish an authority to be known as the Broads Authority; to make provision with respect to its powers; to make provision with respect to the area commonly known as the Broads and with respect to the Great Yarmouth Port and Haven and its Commissioners; to provide for the making of...
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk
19 miles inland by river and we get a 2mph incoming tide and 4mph outgoing tide.
Recently the river reached 100% salt water at the other end of the village.
On the southern broads and rivers these used to go to Norwich 27miles inland by tidal river.
View attachment 557765
Only the lack of trade stopped them in the 1980s.
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Thanks for that. Might need a few updates...

ELIZABETH II
 
T

The Q

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Norfolk. The original one
Our laws don't need updating every time a King or Queen passes, the laws still stand. There's 800 years plus of statutes on the Parliamentary rolls the oldest surviving one goes back to 1275 .. and the origins of parliament go back further to before 1000..
 
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Whinging Pom

Whinging Pom

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East coast, the muddy one.
My anchor ball get hoisted every time. Often I'm anchored in a fairly strong tideway and the boat shows bit of a bow wave just to confuse the passers by. Takes only a moment to rig and strike. Plus it covers your arse when the lawyer's kid on a jetski bounces off your topsides. In my part of the world, nearly everyone uses an anchor ball and light.

Only used a motoring cone in The Netherlands where they are pedantic about it.
 
LB 15

LB 15

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The Q said:
Our laws don't need updating every time a King or Queen passes, the laws still stand. There's 800 years plus of statutes on the Parliamentary rolls the oldest surviving one goes back to 1275 .. and the origins of parliament go back further to before 1000..
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That sarcasm RADAR of yours could do with a tune up...
 
B

bgytr

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lakeneuch said:
You either see both of the lights and then the meaning is clear, or both are obstructed. As in this example they are obstructed while you are approaching from behind (i.e. overtaking) you will just see one white. This is what almost all ships show from this angle so I don't see any problem with it.
In europe red over green is not quite that rare, at least in traditional crafts starting from approx. 40 feet.
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The rules are clear. red over green ALL AROUND lights. That is not a suggestion to be interpreted. If you display those lights, they are to be displayed according to the rules.
 
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Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer

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I don't see why anybody cares. It's not like there is any attempt at enforcing these rules

Woman dead after power boat collides with sailboat in Narragansett Bay

Update 8/19/2019 https://www.newportri.com/news/20190818/probe-into-fatal-boat-crash-on-narragansett-bay-needs-more-time The Department of Environmental Management’s investigation surrounding the death of Sandra G. Taraglino, 60, of Tiverton could take weeks, an official told The Daily News...
forums.sailinganarchy.com forums.sailinganarchy.com
 
A

AnIdiot

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Steam Flyer said:
I don't see why anybody cares. It's not like there is any attempt at enforcing these rules

Woman dead after power boat collides with sailboat in Narragansett Bay

Update 8/19/2019 https://www.newportri.com/news/20190818/probe-into-fatal-boat-crash-on-narragansett-bay-needs-more-time The Department of Environmental Management’s investigation surrounding the death of Sandra G. Taraglino, 60, of Tiverton could take weeks, an official told The Daily News...
forums.sailinganarchy.com forums.sailinganarchy.com
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The OP posted from a University in the Mediterranean (post #12) and there have been several comments either here or elsewhere on compliance being higher in (e.g.) some waters of the low countries, where it's actively policed.
So, there is some attempt at enforcing... and it looks to me from the limited information we have available as if the idea behind the survey is to understand whether lack of compliance is due to lack of knowledge or lack of enforcement: "...conducting a research to find out how often do skippers use day signal while sailing. We are observing traffic in a channel and with a questionnaire we are checking if the sailors don't follow the rules because they don't know them or they are just disregarding them"

...but it does seem as though the results are likely to be skewed by posting on a forum with a high proportion of non-compliant North American sailors.
 
Mark Morwood

Mark Morwood

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Brisbane - after 4 years cruising Bahamas, Atlanti
bgytr said:
The rules are clear. red over green ALL AROUND lights. That is not a suggestion to be interpreted. If you display those lights, they are to be displayed according to the rules.
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It's not that simple. All round lights are allowed to have obscured sectors (Annex 1, part 10) though I'm guessing that particular install would exceed the 6 degrees permitted.

In addition, red over green is an optional light ("a sailing vessel underway may display ..."), so in practical terms, as long as they both obscured at the same time, the boat would always be showing correct lights, though as you point out it is not strictly compliant. The key is it would never be misleading, and most of the time helpful. A sailing vessel is only required to show a stern light and side lights, or if <20m may show a "tricolour" at the top of the mast instead.

I have seen more robust installations where there were 180 degree red and green lights on each side of the mast near the top, spaced out appropriately vertically. But red over green is hard to do well on a small or medium sized sailboat with a normal budget.
 
Zonker

Zonker

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Mark Morwood said:
It's not that simple. All round lights are allowed to have obscured sectors (Annex 1, part 10) though I'm guessing that particular install would exceed the 6 degrees permitted.
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Exactly. 4 little 6mm rods around a big fixture doesn't obscure 6 degrees total. The fixture is about 150mm in diameter and platform is bigger.


Or you can buy a pre-made one. This is for bigger ships 20m+.

Pricing is in AUD so seems high

1670290054929.png
 
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