COLREG Survey - Familiarity with sailboat day signals

in_TO

Super Anarchist
1,140
17
In N. America I am going to say NOBODY uses day shapes on sail boats. I've seen maybe 1 anchor ball in decades of sailing.
I deploy the ball every time I anchor. (Great Lakes.) I have deployed the cone (motor sailing) once on a charter in the tropics, because the boat had one. I had it upside down at first. The cone is a bit awkward to hoist on a cruising boat with few spare halyards, and when you have sails up there's no good place to put it that is visible from all directions. I lashed the cone to the windward shroud.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,648
5,492
Kent Island!
Exactly. 4 little 6mm rods around a big fixture doesn't obscure 6 degrees total. The fixture is about 150mm in diameter and platform is bigger.


Or you can buy a pre-made one. This is for bigger ships 20m+.

Pricing is in AUD so seems high

View attachment 557935
That won't work, the top and bottom half are the same color. Those lights are so if a bulb goes out you don't have to change it right then to stay legal.
Also note if you did swap lenses in one of them for red over green, unless you were really close to the light you would have an orange light.
 

Talchotali

Capt. Marvel's Wise Friend
471
231
Vancouverium BC
Also note if you did swap lenses in one of them for red over green, unless you were really close to the light you would have an orange light.
1670299751484.jpeg

The meter separation between lights is critical to perceiving two colors as my colleague points out.

The confusion I think because the meter separation is defined in a general section of the ColRegs on lighting, and applies to light stacked one over another.

The vertical separation requirement is in Annex I:
§ 84.03 Vertical positioning and spacing of lights
(...)
(i) When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical
line, they shall be spaced as follows:
(1) On a vessel of 20 meters in length or more such lights shall be
spaced not less than 1 meter apart
, and the lowest of these lights
shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height
of not less than 4 meters above the hull;
(2) On a vessel of less than 20 meters in length such lights shall be
spaced not less than 1 meter apart and the lowest of these lights
shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height
of not less than 2 meters above the gunwale;

Here is literature from 1965 when the Motorboat act of 1940 is still referenced. Clearly, a separation is shown for Red over Green.


1670300013866.png


The idea of a close stacked red over green I think comes from artists taking liberties of graphically illustrating the concept and not emphasizing a separation (below from the latest CG pamphlet).

1670300809092.png
 

Talchotali

Capt. Marvel's Wise Friend
471
231
Vancouverium BC
"Red over green, sailing machine"

Apparently, Perko is pushing for their own take on it, "green over red, don't be caught dead".

1670303014819.png

?

They make a red/green split over a white dual stack and I think someone took a product picture with the all-round color lenses installed, er, but in the wrong order.

I think the single all-around red of this series, mounted a meter over the all-around green would work to meet the intent of the standard.

Perko make base/top pipe adapters for this family of (single) all-around lights, so you could pipe mount the red on top of the green, using the green as the base, or having the green also mounted on a short pipe.
 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
10,127
6,313
Canada
agreed, those were duplex lights I referenced. The 1m separation for >20m vessels is true.

The breakpoint for 2m separation is 50m (and also need 2 fore and aft white masthead lights) so surprisingly there are a lot of 49.95m vessels out there just to keep the nav light mast size reasonable.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,648
5,492
Kent Island!
Clearly there is a void in the market for these lights. That void will be tempered by people not wanting weight aloft or not wanting 3 feet more air draft. As it is my VHF antenna pings off the Cape May bridge, one of these lights would keep me from using the ferry channel into town.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,648
5,492
Kent Island!
I've only seen the red over green on very large boats. The plebs like me settle for a masthead tricolour.
That causes an issue inshore where powerboaters will never notice lights "way up there". Also idiots persist in using them with deck lights and end up looking like a vessel not under command from the port side and some odd thing like a dredge from the other side.
 

TradingUp

New member
27
8
I use my anchor ball if anchored more than an hour, off of the flag halyard. I'm practically the only pedantic one around; but in practicality the regs around here only get looked at as part of a retroactive enforcement; after an incident.

By retroactive enforcement, like the Kevin O'Leary saga, when he's not selling crypto, or https://canlii.ca/t/1w1nw (R. v. Bridle, 2008), both involving navigation lights.

The inverted cone is not required in a river in Canada as part of the Canadian mods to the colregs. If I'm on a longer motorsail I'll consider putting it up, regardless if its a requirement.

Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars — Canadian Modification​

  • (f) Notwithstanding paragraph (e), in the Canadian waters of a roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland waterway, a vessel of less than 12 metres in length proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery is not required to exhibit a conical shape, apex downwards, but may do so.

1670364428950.png
 

TradingUp

New member
27
8
I'd like it if the ball was scaled to the size of the vessel. The one in the above pic is the same one used on deep seas.

This is probably the easiest item to fabricate for a boat. Nothing plywood, a jigsaw and flat black paint can't be used to do something bespoke.

Level 2 of this is to do a 3d print, in a black filament.

In either case, the size is left to the maker.
 

10thTonner

Hazard to Navigation
1,725
656
South of Spandau
This is probably the easiest item to fabricate for a boat. Nothing plywood, a jigsaw and flat black paint can't be used to do something bespoke.

Level 2 of this is to do a 3d print, in a black filament.

In either case, the size is left to the maker.
The inflatable black beach-ball types may look a bit big for a typical 8 to 11 meter racer cruiser sail boat but their’e pretty light, cheap, and easy to stow. And you don’t need to fritz around with a jigsaw.

(If there was an inflatable black inverted cone I’d probably buy one, even if I’d use it once in two years.)
 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
10,127
6,313
Canada
If you're <20m you're allowed smaller. 0.6m for 20m +

Annex I - 6 (c). In a vessel of less than 20 metres in length shapes of lesser dimensions but commensurate with the size of the vessel may be used and the distance apart may be correspondingly reduced.

So I figure a 10m vessel can use something about 0.3m. About the size of a typical radar reflector.
 
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Joakim

Super Anarchist
1,481
109
Finland
So how do they differ from the IRPCS and why?
There are quite a few countries which do not require all the same Colregs do and may have some additional requirements. This applies only to "inland water" which usually covers also sea to some distance from coast line or islands.

E.g. US and Sweden (+ many others) do not require using cone for sailboats under 12 m. Sweden has quite a lot of archipelago and all this is considered to be "inland water" despite being Baltic Sea or Atlantic.
 

sAiLiNg AnArChY

Novmember
38
15
The inflatable black beach-ball types may look a bit big for a typical 8 to 11 meter racer cruiser sail boat but their’e pretty light, cheap, and easy to stow. And you don’t need to fritz around with a jigsaw.

(If there was an inflatable black inverted cone I’d probably buy one, even if I’d use it once in two years.)
1670524974114.png

Fendequip's got'um


Another option:

1670573721343.png
 
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