Colregs ignorance

[climenuts]

Something I haven't seen mentioned which bothers me the most is that you're responsible for your own wake and any damage it causes.

The number of times a 45ft douche canoe rips past 10% above hull speed 75ft from me and totally swamps the dinghy I'm towing is far too high. Especially in narrow channels near slack or when I'm trying to buck a 4.5kt current in my 29ft boat...

Had someone totally fuck me in Dodd Narrows last summer near Nanaimo. Got the registration numbers and called it into the RCMP. 35ft powerboat on plane going through a 70ft wide channel overtaking me with opposing traffic coming the other way.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

All this shit is just another day’s boating in Alabama and Floriduh... some places are worse than others. The Miserable Mile on the ICW comes to mind. I figure if I don’t get killed I’ve had a good day

 

[European Bloke]

It's not just the motor boats. There are clowns in yachts, and sometimes quite nice ones.

Years back at the 12 metre regatta on the Solent were milling around off the side the the course watching the racing.  Pre start one of the 12s seems to be coming straight for us, which I thought was of given where we were. He sailed up almost to us and tacked around shouting that we were in the way of his start. I responded that we were quite a long way from the start and so was he.  He sailed directly back to the line and was almost 2 minutes late. 2 minutes is a long way in a 12.

Goes to show that having a nice yacht doesn't mean you're not an idiot.

 

[bgytr]

The two groups of boaters that think they have rights that they do not:

1. Racing sailors - "I am racing" is not a colreg and you're on port so tack already or pay the fee to rent the river for yourself.

2. Fishermen - Trolling is NOT trawling and unless you have a commercial fishing boat with the correct lights/shapes and have a big assed net behind you, you have no rights.

The worst possible situation is when these two groups meet.

Then almost worse than that is big powerboat skippers, who think there is exactly one colreg - sailboats have right-of-way. They hate that rule and may ignore it, but they know it exists. They will NEVER EVER give way to a small powerboat no matter what. I learned when I got a small powerboat to commute to work that large powerboats were much more of a danger to me in that boat than they ever were in a sailboat. As for the OP and lakes, on any lake I assume everyone is drunk and have no idea there even is such a thing as colregs

Ya just about every power boater I have come across in my life thinks trolling means you have rights.  I wonder if any of them have read the rules.  This power boater at a party one time years ago, maybe 1990 as I had just graduated from SUNY Maritime, insisted he had rights when trolling if he put a basket on his bow.  I told him that's not the case, and he was about to hit me.  I told him I recently graduated from Maritime  with an unlimited license and got 100 on my my rules test and that made him madder, pretty funny.  But then again not funny as ignorance on the water can be dangerous to self and others.

Just last year a troller in a runabout was paralleling courses with me then turned right across my bow and started yelling that he had lines out and had right of way.  Ignorant fuggers.

 

[Ajax]

Never a Coastie around when you need one.

 

[DDW]

I have called starboard and had cruising sailors yell back "We aren't racing" :wacko:

Even better - I am alone under autopilot coiling lines on deck headed up the Miles River. A charter cat is approaching from aft going about 1/2 knot faster. We are both under power.I watch this with interest and they are going to hit me eventually. When they get about 5 feet off my beam I ask them what they are doing. The skipper (if you can call him that) starts yelling TURN YOU ARE IN MY WAY. I just looked at him and said NO. He started going TURN NOW and I asked if he noticed I was 20 feet away from the wheel and also told him I really needed new paint, so he was free to hit me and I'll be calling with an estimate in a few days :lol: He turned and mentioned something like "But I am going straight in the channel" or some weirdness.

I had a motorboat pass me one day, calm and clear, I was also motoring. He called several times with increasing vehemence that he was the stand on vessel. Of course, the overtaking vessel is never stand on, and in any case there were at least 300-400 yard of deep water to starboard and over a mile to port - what did he think he needed rights for? Steering wheel stuck?

I avoid people trolling fishing lines as a courtesy, but a heck of a lot of them think they are "engaged in fishing" under the Colregs. 

 

[El Borracho]

Ya just about every power boater...Ignorant fuggers.

Nah, dive boat operators and their meaningless red/white flag. Plus, they have an audience of divers to perform for their emotional with yelling and pontification about imaginary rules.

 

[Elegua]

It's kind of like driving defensively. You just have to assume the worst. How many sailors understand stand on vessel under power? How many times are people head's down in their chart plotter in the fog? How many power boaters understand anything?  Just stay the f away. 

 

[SpongeDeckSquareFoil]

Never a Coastie around when you need one.

The CG is not always a source to rely on.

Once after a Wednesday evening race in which I single-handed I was continuing sailing since it was a very nice evening. Had my running lights on.

Noticed a CG boat leaving its port and heading in my direction with its flashing lights on. Was wondering where they were headed. They pulled along side me and told me to turn on my masthead light. I explained that I wasn't motoring and turning that light on would indicate I was a powerboat. We went back on forth a bit, them telling me to turn it on, me saying it was against regulations. I finally decided that arguing with the Coast Guard while I had a number of empty beer cans in the cockpit wasn't the best idea. So I turned the masthead light on.

Called the CG station the next day and had to work up the chain to in order to talk to the commander. He agreed that his people were wrong.

The episode had me wondering though, if I couldn't trust the CG to know even one of the most basic rules I'm sure not going to think that the average boater knows much at all about the regulations.

 

[slap]

I avoid people trolling fishing lines as a courtesy, but a heck of a lot of them think they are "engaged in fishing" under the Colregs. 

I try to do that, too - but if they change course so that our paths cross then I keep my rights.

 

[El Borracho]

The CG is not always a source to rely on....

...The episode had me wondering though, if I couldn't trust the CG to know even one of the most basic rules I'm sure not going to think that the average boater knows much at all about the regulations.

Yes, that is a problem. But it is not with the possible momentary lack of knowledge of somewhat arcane rules of the road. The problem is with the baked-in sense of righteousness and authority exhibited by many people finding themselves in a position of power they did not earn. Since that attitude is very unlikely to go away you did the right thing by temporarily acquiescing. 

 

[Slick470]

Speaking of colregs... remember that fishing boat that t-boned a J/105 near Annapolis a couple years ago? CBM and Annapolis School of Seamanship did an update.

https://chesapeakebaymagazine.com/video-watch-cbm-recreate-sailboat-vs-fishing-boat-collision/?amp&fbclid=IwAR31w8qzFc-0SPIapVT9XaNhYjvyw6YIZdnKTPGkpPZoBIljTi4103xh9-E

 

[2airishuman]

Speaking of colregs... remember that fishing boat that t-boned a J/105 near Annapolis a couple years ago? CBM and Annapolis School of Seamanship did an update.

https://chesapeakebaymagazine.com/video-watch-cbm-recreate-sailboat-vs-fishing-boat-collision/?amp&fbclid=IwAR31w8qzFc-0SPIapVT9XaNhYjvyw6YIZdnKTPGkpPZoBIljTi4103xh9-E

The reenactment was done in stronger wind than was present in the actual accident which makes it appear as though the sailboat had options it did not actually have.  I recall that the people on the sailboat reported that they were in light airs.  They also reported that they saw the powerboat well before the collision occurred.  It was not clear to them that tacking would take them clear of danger rather than into it -- until they had run out of time.

 

[kinardly]

Yes, that is a problem. But it is not with the possible momentary lack of knowledge of somewhat arcane rules of the road. The problem is with the baked-in sense of righteousness and authority exhibited by many people finding themselves in a position of power they did not earn. Since that attitude is very unlikely to go away you did the right thing by temporarily acquiescing. 

The tranny was out on our Ericson one weekend and I decided to take some friends out for a sail on the bay anyway. No big deal, just push off the dock and go sailing, right? This was Autumn of '88 and some will recall this was the year of DC's catamaran defense of the Cup. This particular lovely afternoon was the day of the first race out off Point Loma and, just as I was heading back to SDYC, Connor was finished and coming up the channel, flying a hull and just generally showing off and all around him was this wall to wall fleet of power boats, everyone with a bone in its teeth trying to keep up, heading right at me. I swear, the first thought that jumped into my mind was that scene in "Apocalypse Now" where the helicopters are heading right at the camera with "Flight of the Valkyrie" blasting away. Anyway, there was no illusion of stand on rights and I had few options. The coasties were leading the way in warning everyone out of the way and telling me to turn on my engine and get lost. When I told them that wasn't an option they just looked incredulous, like "is that even legal to not have an engine". In the light airs I was just able to work my way over to some shelter behind the boats moored in one of the anchorages off of Broadway Pier and nobody ran me over but the whole gaggle eventually roared into the Shelter Island Yacht basin at well over wake speed causing boocoo bucks worth of damage to boats tied up to the various marinas and clubs. I doubt there wasn't a single skipper in that bunch who had a clue what Colregs were.

 

[Ajax]

Remember this?

 

[eric1207]

Dang, I was hoping to see a real collision in the re-enactment. 

I had a most bizarre incident a few years back.  I was sailing my 30'er upwind in a mile+ wide, 5 mile long channel.  Just after I tacked near the stbd shore I noticed a ~35' Bayliner over near the port shore a several miles upwind,  planing down the channel at 15 or 20 knots.  Just a few other boats around, not constricted or busy at all, NBD.   A minutes or so later I noticed we were close to a collision course, again, no big deal, its a mile wide channel and he'll just turn a degree or two and we'll all continue our merry way.  Another minute or two later, yep near dead on collision course.  I could see the skipper and his wife, 15 feet up in the fly bridge, enjoying the beautiful sunny day.  Did they see me, did he realize he was on a collision course?  How could he not, we'd been closing for several minutes, in clear weather, with no other issues to contend with, (shoals, traffic, buoys, blow job from the wife, etc...)?  Neither he nor his wife were distracted, they were just eyes up, watching the world go by.   As we closed I could see he would just clear my stern, but it would be close.  Like many here I raced dinghies a lot when I was young and still am adept at judging close crossings.   So I just held my course.  Then the skipper came out of his stupor, or whatever was transpiring in his ignorant brain.  Rather than flick his wrist a few degrees to give me a courteous wider path astern he slams both engines in full reverse, from a ~15 knot plane.  With no pause for neutral.  Stops the boat, and just keeps revving it in reverse.   Backing up at flank speed, for no good reason (we've already gone by him), for several seconds, water coming over the transom into his cockpit.  He was never closer than ~20 or so yards.  It was hilarious.  I have no idea what he or his wife were thinking.  He goes WTF, and I yelled "learn the rules, take a course".  It was truly bizarre.   How can someone afford a ~$150K boat and be so clueless.  There was no way he or his wife didn't see me.  Did he just think the sailboat would give his big powerful mobo a wide berth?  Did he have some sort of undeserved sense of entitlement, (as mentioned above), that was his idea of rules of the road?   Did he even know there are rules of the road?  Was he a poster child for a certain type of boat owner that I derisively call Credit Card Captain; no sense, (common, or otherwise), but means to by a large boat?  I wonder what his account was at the YC bar with his buddies that evening or what his wife thought of his seamanship.  I shake my head and continue to keep a sharp look out for clueless ignoramuses.  And big ships.

 

[Elegua]

Dang, I was hoping to see a real collision in the re-enactment. 

I had a most bizarre incident a few years back.  I was sailing my 30'er upwind in a mile+ wide, 5 mile long channel.  Just after I tacked near the stbd shore I noticed a ~35' Bayliner over near the port shore a several miles upwind,  planing down the channel at 15 or 20 knots.  Just a few other boats around, not constricted or busy at all, NBD.   A minutes or so later I noticed we were close to a collision course, again, no big deal, its a mile wide channel and he'll just turn a degree or two and we'll all continue our merry way.  Another minute or two later, yep near dead on collision course.  I could see the skipper and his wife, 15 feet up in the fly bridge, enjoying the beautiful sunny day.  Did they see me, did he realize he was on a collision course?  How could he not, we'd been closing for several minutes, in clear weather, with no other issues to contend with, (shoals, traffic, buoys, blow job from the wife, etc...)?  Neither he nor his wife were distracted, they were just eyes up, watching the world go by.   As we closed I could see he would just clear my stern, but it would be close.  Like many here I raced dinghies a lot when I was young and still am adept at judging close crossings.   So I just held my course.  Then the skipper came out of his stupor, or whatever was transpiring in his ignorant brain.  Rather than flick his wrist a few degrees to give me a courteous wider path astern he slams both engines in full reverse, from a ~15 knot plane.  With no pause for neutral.  Stops the boat, and just keeps revving it in reverse.   Backing up at flank speed, for no good reason (we've already gone by him), for several seconds, water coming over the transom into his cockpit.  He was never closer than ~20 or so yards.  It was hilarious.  I have no idea what he or his wife were thinking.  He goes WTF, and I yelled "learn the rules, take a course".  It was truly bizarre.   How can someone afford a ~$150K boat and be so clueless.  There was no way he or his wife didn't see me.  Did he just think the sailboat would give his big powerful mobo a wide berth?  Did he have some sort of undeserved sense of entitlement, (as mentioned above), that was his idea of rules of the road?   Did he even know there are rules of the road?  Was he a poster child for a certain type of boat owner that I derisively call Credit Card Captain; no sense, (common, or otherwise), but means to by a large boat?  I wonder what his account was at the YC bar with his buddies that evening or what his wife thought of his seamanship.  I shake my head and continue to keep a sharp look out for clueless ignoramuses.  And big ships.

I've heard this convo. You were some dum-ass WAFI. I was at a bar sitting next to a sportfisher when one was going off on sailboats. Conversation stopped dead when I politely suggested that the sailboat likely had right of way. 

To be fair, the sailing community has some abusers and I will admit to be yelled at by a tug captain or two for tacking too close. 

 

[Steam Flyer]

We were sailing along on a pleasant day on the open Chesapeake, and from a long way off observed a large cruising sailboat under power converging.

We continued. He continued. As we got closer, I saw one person on deck, a man far forward apparently fiddling with the anchor & windlass. Well, don't blame him for that, they can be quite finicky items. But we were clearly converging. My wife was on the helm, holding a compass course (approximate) to our next evening anchorage, on a close-ish reach. A fun time sailing the boat.

As we got within about thirty yards or so, my wife asked me to take the helm, so I did, and began easing the main to slow down. We passed within about ten yards, since we slowed down to just steerageway we were going to clear him astern but within two boat-lengths. The flapping of the sail made it difficult for him to continue pretending he didn't see us. In a sort-of joking way, I called out "Yo, ever try looking where you're going?" At which he stood up on his foredeck, looking down at us, angrily put his hands on his hips and shouted "Can't you see I'm on autopilot?"

No point in arguing with some people.

- DSK

 

[Ajax]

Wow. It's really hard for me to be angry at clueless powerboaters when one of our own acts that way.

 

[frozenhawaiian]

I'm a commercial operator (60ft sailing vessel) so I'm on the water 6-7 days a week for most of sailing season and this is my absolute biggest stressor. it makes me crazy. the recreational motor boaters that are just out cruising around, while annoying, aren't too bad if for no other reason than because their boats are nimble enough to avoid dangerously close encounters. but as you state the ones dragging lines that come hell or high water won't move because they think they're engaged in fishing are a real pain. I hate to say it but the recreational sailors are honestly worse by a considerable  margin, I can't count how many times I've had rec. sailors call starboard rights when they're on a port tack, or demand right of way over a motorboat when they themselves are motoring because they think being a sailboat gives them the rights of a vessel under sail at all times.

the worst however are the teenagers on jet skis. man fuck those fuckers, 

part of it is absolutely because people are idiots but a big part of it it comes from the fact that most recreational boaters have never been forced to read the colregs book. I'm not one for excessive government regulations but mandating licensing before you can run a recreational boat, including passing an exam that makes you learn the colregs at least reasonably well would go a long way to cutting down on the chaos on the water in the summer. 

edit: also gonna call out sailors here again. some of the most egregious abusers are the racing fleets. more times than I can count I've had racers yelling and screaming at me to get out of their way when I'm on a starboard tack and they're on port. I do my best to be courteous and keep clear of the race course but I can't always do it. again I think it's a lack of education as many racers don't understand that the RRS do NOT override the colregs. either way; sorry fuck knuckles I'm not going to crash tack a 60ft boat to get out of your way when I have the right of way just so you and your J24 don't have to tuck another tack in on the upwind leg.