Combo PFD/Harness?

[estarzinger]

 They may have screwed up in the past, but it appears they learned from it  

Yes, as I mention above (post #29) they did improve the bladder attachment and the tether hook designs.

I would love to see a test for PFD's where you take a 100kg dummy, strap the PFD on, and put it in a wave machine set to violent breaking waves/surf and let it run for say 30 minutes (which is probably longer than a human would survive).  I would guess shit will break and personally would be curious what the failure modes are. 

And then a 3-phase test: fall (from say 2m) and drag/tow (at some decent rate of speed at least initially, and in wave and waves) and then lift (where the lifting point is being violently rocked - as the top of a mast would be in big waves) - both creating some decent shock loading. I again imagine shit will break (quite a few commercial tethers have failed the drop test when independently tested) 

In my mind that would be reasonable for mandated safety equipment - that it functions in quite conceivable bad-case situations

A confounding fact of our sport is just how really really safe it actually is - even at the bleeding edge - which means this stuff does not get real-world field-tested much. And the mfg's can get away with not doing rigorous design and testing and process control (and yea customers may not want to pay for it).

 

[Monkey]

Yes, as I mention above (post #29) they did improve the bladder attachment and the tether hook designs.

I would love to see a test for PFD's where you take a 100kg dummy, strap the PFD on, and put it in a wave machine set to violent breaking waves/surf and let it run for say 30 minutes (which is probably longer than a human would survive).  I would guess shit will break and personally would be curious what the failure modes are. 

And then a 3-phase test: fall (from say 2m) and drag/tow (at some decent rate of speed at least initially, and in wave and waves) and then lift (where the lifting point is being violently rocked - as the top of a mast would be in big waves) - both creating some decent shock loading. I again imagine shit will break (quite a few commercial tethers have failed the drop test when independently tested) 

In my mind that would be reasonable for mandated safety equipment - that it functions in quite conceivable bad-case situations

A confounding fact of our sport is just how really really safe it actually is - even at the bleeding edge - which means this stuff does not get real-world field-tested much. And the mfg's can get away with not doing rigorous design and testing and process control (and yea customers may not want to pay for it).

That was a big reason I chose the Spinlock Vito. Sending a fleet of pro sailors running their boats on the ragged edge around the world in that vest is about the best field testing you’re going to get. I’m in no way a Spinlock fanboy. My previous harness/inflatable was a Mustang, and my dinghy vest is as well. I mostly went with it because it’s 5 times more comfortable despite having 3 times more safety gear stuffed into it compared to my old one. I suppose I should revise my recommendation. Go hit a boat show (when they start up again) and find the one that’s the most comfortable that you trust. 

 

[George Dewey]

I own both a Crew Saver and a Spinlock Vito. The Crew Saver is a bit more bulky (but it also has more flotation) but, for some reason, I find it much more comfortable. The Vito leaves my neck and shoulders sore. 

 

[climenuts]

I've got the bigger crewsaver (290N) and I'm really happy with it. Fits nice and snuggly and I don't notice its on after a few minutes. It is more bulky than others but I find the fit makes up for it.

A downside is it's completely impossible to swim in because of the high floatation. You've got to let air out if you want to move around.

 

[slug zitski]

I've got the bigger crewsaver (290N) and I'm really happy with it. Fits nice and snuggly and I don't notice its on after a few minutes. It is more bulky than others but I find the fit makes up for it.

A downside is it's completely impossible to swim in because of the high floatation. You've got to let air out if you want to move around.

Yah 

you need a selection of life jackets 

SOLAS PFD  , a swimmers type PFD  and your inflatable harness PFD 

never voluntarily jump over the side with a harness style pfd , you will be reduced to a jellyfish 

 

[George Dewey]

I've got the bigger crewsaver (290N) and I'm really happy with it. Fits nice and snuggly and I don't notice its on after a few minutes. It is more bulky than others but I find the fit makes up for it.

A downside is it's completely impossible to swim in because of the high floatation. You've got to let air out if you want to move around.

Yeah this is the one I was referring to, bulky but more comfortable. But, the hood is very difficult to deploy.

 

[climenuts]

Yeah this is the one I was referring to, bulky but more comfortable. But, the hood is very difficult to deploy.

I haven't had any issues with the hood although it was in flat calm conditions when I tried it.

Yah 

you need a selection of life jackets 

SOLAS PFD  , a swimmers type PFD  and your inflatable harness PFD 

never voluntarily jump over the side with a harness style pfd , you will be reduced to a jellyfish 

Yeah - I've got the mouldy foam jobs for guests that might not bring their own stuffed into the gaps around the holding tank  . I've also got a nice kayak PFD (forget the make) with a built in beer holder so I don't waste a hammar cartridge every time I fall out of my dinghy after 10 pints.

 

[thinwater]

Thanks. That is very helpful.  Tombstone safety. I don't mean to put you in a position of outing people/companies, but this is safety equipment.  

Are these the "good" hooks? Seems like not. 

Spinlock never recalled those hooks, but after the Clipper fatality and some embarrassing (humiliating?) test failures they quietly changed to the Kong hook, which met an ISO side load standard that has been around for decades.

https://youtu.be/CbyhyC7ua8g

Kong Tango Kong makes complete tethers. Several manufacturers also use their hardware (Spinlock and West Marine).

 

[thinwater]

Wrong video link

clip test video

 

[SimonGH]

I went with TeamO PFDs. 

Back to the original question - they have a backtow feature you can pull and the harness attachment will change from the front to over the shoulders.

https://www.teamomarine.com/

When you email them, you talk to one of the founders.  Works for me.

Simon

 

[Elegua]

Spinlock never recalled those hooks, but after the Clipper fatality and some embarrassing (humiliating?) test failures they quietly changed to the Kong hook, which met an ISO side load standard that has been around for decades.

https://youtu.be/CbyhyC7ua8g

Kong Tango Kong makes complete tethers. Several manufacturers also use their hardware (Spinlock and West Marine).

Thanks. Those in the image are the Wichard version, which according to Practical Sailor tests are stronger than Spinlock, but still not as good as the Kong.

 

[Israel Hands]

Can we revisit this subject again? Any recommendations for effective, comfortable PFD/harnesses for offshore cruising passages? PFD/harnesses that are NOT West Marine?

We tested our West Marine PFD/harnesses in an MOB drill. Nine of us jumped off a sailboat. Five of the nine PFDs were WM, and I observed that 4 of the 5 WM PFDs didn't open 'properly' compared to the other brands. Mine half-inflated and I ended up having to separate at least 30% of the velcro edges in order to have it completely inflate. My wife's barely started to inflate, and so she pulled the cord, which resulted in immediate inflation and a rip in the material(!) which then quickly deflated the PFD. They were purchased in 2022, so I returned them to the store, the manager agreed that they had been properly armed and fully refunded me. So I need new recommendations, hopefully in time for Black Friday deals...

 

[El Borracho]

If one wears a harness is a PFD necessary? The auto inflate vests cannot withstand regular cruiser use. Some pinch point always destroys the bag. I wear a comfy Spinlock harness. Rarely take it off underway. Sleep in it even. Always clipped in.

 

[yoyo]

Been pretty happy wearing the Mustang unit for multiple day offshore passages. Fairly comfortable and has USCG cert if that's important to you.
I like what El B said. A simple webbing harness...old school and so much lighter.

 

[slug zitski]

Can we revisit this subject again? Any recommendations for effective, comfortable PFD/harnesses for offshore cruising passages? PFD/harnesses that are NOT West Marine?

We tested our West Marine PFD/harnesses in an MOB drill. Nine of us jumped off a sailboat. Five of the nine PFDs were WM, and I observed that 4 of the 5 WM PFDs didn't open 'properly' compared to the other brands. Mine half-inflated and I ended up having to separate at least 30% of the velcro edges in order to have it completely inflate. My wife's barely started to inflate, and so she pulled the cord, which resulted in immediate inflation and a rip in the material(!) which then quickly deflated the PFD. They were purchased in 2022, so I returned them to the store, the manager agreed that they had been properly armed and fully refunded me. So I need new recommendations, hopefully in time for Black Friday deals...

I’ve never met a PFD harness that was comfortable …in addition they get destroyed when driving when the steering wheel chafes the PDF

I avoid and wear a harness only …much less bulk …no maintenance and very easy to get into and out of

 

[Alaris]

Crewsaver is my favorite

 

[slug zitski]

Can we revisit this subject again? Any recommendations for effective, comfortable PFD/harnesses for offshore cruising passages? PFD/harnesses that are NOT West Marine?

We tested our West Marine PFD/harnesses in an MOB drill. Nine of us jumped off a sailboat. Five of the nine PFDs were WM, and I observed that 4 of the 5 WM PFDs didn't open 'properly' compared to the other brands. Mine half-inflated and I ended up having to separate at least 30% of the velcro edges in order to have it completely inflate. My wife's barely started to inflate, and so she pulled the cord, which resulted in immediate inflation and a rip in the material(!) which then quickly deflated the PFD. They were purchased in 2022, so I returned them to the store, the manager agreed that they had been properly armed and fully refunded me. So I need new recommendations, hopefully in time for Black Friday deals...

As far as …abandoning ship wearing an inflatable …bad news

inflate your pfd then try to swim 50 meters

A boat need a selection of PFDs..including swimmers type

typically these swimmers type have a tether attachment on the back so that you can swim and stay attached to the boat or life raft

the classic inflatable PFD disaster is when a boat goes up on the rocks, crew jump over in inflatables but can’t swim clear of the surf then get smashed to death on the rocks

 

[Plumbean]

Had an older Spinlock (recalled and retrofitted after the Uncontrollable Urge incident) that was tough to wear for long hours as it put pressure on the back of the neck and shoulders no matter how I adjusted it. Retired it and went with a Vito model. It is a night and day difference in comfort. I can wear it all day without any issues. Very happy with it.

 

[Israel Hands]

Okay, I've been messing around on this decision since last Fall, and it's time I purchased new pfd-harnesses for the wife and me. Based on what I keep reading and hearing, it sounds like maybe the best choices are

-Mustang HIT
-Crewsaver Ergofit 290N
-Spinlock Vito

I expect there will be times where we will wear these on multiple days. Can anyone offer up which might be most comfortable for average-size men and women? And slug needn't bother pitching the harness-only option again - we want pfd/harnesses that automatically inflate (hammar type).

 

[Figment]

My deckvest is done. 20yrs was a good run so I'm sticking with spinlock.

Can anyone give me the short-form answer on why the Vito is worth the upcharge over the 6D?

 

[jackolantern]

Have found the Vito to be a bit more ergonomic for the wearer