Coolboats to admire

Bob Perry

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It's kind of odd that at one time we had some CA'ers railing against the potentially dangerous offset companionway and by posting great boat after great boat with offset companionways we have turned that argument into a standard CA joke. It's good to be educated.

Lovely old drawings.

 
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kdh

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Thanks to, because of, Bob I'll never look at overhangs the same way. Now I see waste of sailing length.

Does the bow overhang do more than make anchor handling easier? Does the stern overhang do other than gently caress and then free the stern wave?

 

kdh

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Maxx, you skied with Pink Floyd and then didn't go to the show? Holy fucking shit.

 

Bob Perry

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kdh:

I think overhangs can do some work to extend the sailing length depending upon the sectional shape and how much boat is immersed as the boat heels. But if you apply this to bows it's hard to imagine bow overhang doing anything to add to sailing length. The exception is the scow type bow you see on some of the mini Transat boats. Laurie Davidson told me years ago that the Farr AC boats with "destroyer" bows were not as fast in waves as the boats with bow overhang.

Overhang came from the days of the old "Tonnage" rules used for rating. The basic formula was L+B+D= rating in tons. (Note that sail area was not even part of the formula.) B was beam and D was depth usually taken as a function of B because it was hard to measure depth(draft) when the boat was in the water. The big question was how and where to measure L, length. When they moved the L dimension from the deck level to the DWL there was a lot of pressure to reduce DWL, i.e. L, to get a lower rating. Overhangs came into vogue but only as an artifact of that rule. Later rules would also use DWL or a waterline close to the DWL as the basis for L so overhangs became a standard design feature. If you went back to measuring L at the deck level overhangs would almost dissapear. A little overhang aft is good to clean up the wake, reduce drag, at low speeds.

 

Bob Perry

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The only way that layout works is with an offcenter companionway. Look carefully at the drawing and you will see the "great cabin" approach where there is a circular dinette aft of the galley to starboard. It's a tiny mani cabin and letting a companionway intrude into that area would have created some headroom issues under the ladder. Although the drawing does not clearly, to my eye, define the companionway exactly.

 

Ishmael

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48,114
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Fuctifino
There do seem to be a set of curved stairs just aft of the galley. They would have to be pretty steep to be that short.

 

Bob Perry

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Ish:

That has to be the companionway but I agree, they must be pretty steep. The photo seems to show a companionway hatch on both sides.

 

Bob Perry

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In my comments on old "rating" rules I forgot to mention that the first rules, the tonnage rules were measurements of volume originally used to calculate taxation of cargo carrying vesels. A
"tun" was a cask of wine. Your rating was a volume measurement that really had nothing to do with the actual displacement of the vessel. In time this would change, due to American influences, into a rule that measured Length and for a long while displacement was ignored as was sail area. This lead to the age of the skimming dishes with towering rigs and some remarkable and deadly failures. I think we can thank Nathaniel Herreshoff for finally convincing sailors and yacht club mavens that a true estimate of displacement was needed to stop the skimming dish type. Boats were falling over. Falling over when moored.

 

Jose Carumba

Super Anarchist
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Pugetopolis
Those tonnage rules are still used today for setting certain regulations for vessels such as manning requirements. On our large yachts we have to do some some strange things in order to get the tonnage down to a level where crew size and other requirements can be reduced.

 

Ishmael

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48,114
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Fuctifino
There are dual companionways, I hadn't realized. Wow. Let's make half the boat ladders to somewhere else. Maybe there's an up and a down staircase?

 

stickboy

Super Anarchist
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Maine
Shitski! 100 Concordia yawls? That's kind of amazing. They were the Cat 27's of their day.

It's nice to know that they were as well appreciated when new as they are now.

I wonder what a new one cost back in the day. I'll stick out my neck and guess $19,750.00.
The Cat 27s of a slightly later day would be the strip-built Amphibicons, and other Controversies: http://www.amphibicon.com/Amphibicon.com/Welcome.html They were the biggest selling boats just before the advent of fiberglass construction. I don't recall seeing one in the flesh for years and years, but you every now and then one is listed for sale.
The little museum in Northeast Harbor had a pretty extensive display on these a few years ago, as I recall the reverse sheer was radical for a sailboat.

 

SloopJonB

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I saw them in Van. on the Dark Side tour - f'ing amazing show - the first really spectacular "staged" rock show - naked dancing girls on top of the speaker towers, indoor pyrotechnics etc. Prior to that, even Led Zephloid basically just played on a big stage but Floyd upped the ante about 4 orders of magnitude with the Dark Side show. It would still be a first rank show today, 40 years later.
I skied with the band, specifically David Gilmore, the day before of the concert. I knew who they were about to embark into a iconic milestone in music. They were good but a bit of a little off stream what was going on in the world. Dark Side changed everything for them; us as well. They used to start NA tours in Van. so I think it was the first one so who knew! I didn't go as I think as was working anyway. I don't remember if the boys offered me tickets or not but I would've had passed anyway. However, I still have their ski rental forms from that somewhere and we had a great lunch.

Gilmore was/is a great guy. More interested about what I was doing with my skiing at that time. Real gentleman.

I still crank on the '96 concert on PBS when it comes up - outstanding.
Now that's what I call one-upmanship! :p :D

 

SloopJonB

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Thanks to, because of, Bob I'll never look at overhangs the same way. Now I see waste of sailing length.

Does the bow overhang do more than make anchor handling easier? Does the stern overhang do other than gently caress and then free the stern wave?
Yes - they make the boat beautiful. I have rarely seen a boat that I thought had too much overhang - the odd old Scandinavian boat is about it. Even the J Class and their ilk don't have too much IMHO.

I'd rather have a boat that looked great than a boxy looking thing that went 1 Knot faster.

 

Bob Perry

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Jon:

Don't bother me with your personal problems.

You probably like those gals with the 48" chests too. Overhangs baby!

 

Bob Perry

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I'm watching the Stanley Cup playoffs. 3 to 3 going into the third OT. I don't really like hockey but Gate makes me watch it.\

Ok, I admit it. I like it a lot. Men with sticks and no teeth on skates? What not to like?

I wonder if there is a hockey player who is also a sailor?

Chara?

That would be cool ( in my best Butthead voice).

 

kdh

Super Anarchist
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Jon:

Don't bother me with your personal problems.

You probably like those gals with the 48" chests too. Overhangs baby!
I think Bob has made here and elsewhere over the years a good case that overhangs historically have often been excessive for any reasonable practical purposes.

Knowing this has changed my opinion of what makes a boat beautiful because it's odd that rules and laws have given rise to a definition of beautiful. A boat can be attractive, even traditional, without excessive overhangs and be suited to its purpose independent of rules.

I hope Bob can be the guy who is known as one "who finally convinced us that overhangs are stupid."

Here are some overhangs for you, Jon.

big2_zpsa64fb269.jpg


Should we talk about anchors now? :p

 
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alphafb552

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Fryslan boppe!
I always thought that some overhang at the front has a positive effect in damping pitching motion, without introducing too much flare in the topsides of the bow...

 
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