COP27 climate summit
- Thread starter Alan H
- Start date
It is not a reason for those that can afford to pay the large amount of money. Then again, it is a very big reason for those that can't afford it. But who worries about those losers, they should have made better life decisions.
3to1
Super Anarchist
focus dimwit, this is an ecological issue first, matters of human 'convenience' and economics second. it doesn't matter how persistently you might try to rationalize otherwise, 'but, but, but' only has the relevance it deserves.
Not for nothing
Super Anarchist
sparau
Super Anarchist
The point I was making is your argument that being poor would mean owning a gas guzzler is without basis, just choose any cheap car made in the past 40 years. Btw - vehicles don't magically start using more petrol over time. My 1965 Austin 1800 would happily do >30mpg in 1995, i'm sure it would still today and I bought it for $300.
Or, like me, ride an e-bike 50km per day to get to work.
Sir, you really have supplied the worst set of arguments I have seen in a long time, talk back radio level of incompetence.
FWIW, auto efficiency (energy in converted to motion out) is actually pretty low to start and does decrease with time. But the base is already so awful that an additional 20% drop isn't that noticeable. In the solar industry, they coined a term "Bonus Power at the Beginning of Life" because they didn't want to talk about 'degradation rate'. All energy conversion devices degrade. Some, very slow. Some, much faster. All depend on how hard you push them.
The weight of cars has dramatically increased because the SAFETY of cars has dramatically increased. The last numbers I saw (2017?) was that a typical Camry had 600+ lbs of 'safety gear' on every car. Additional weight has gone into 'crumple zones' and protective structures around passengers. On a good day, my first car - a Datsun B110 - could get 45+ MPH. It had a curb weight of 1500 lbs and would have a 1-star crash rating! Coupled with acceleration of most cars also being prioritized, that's where all the 'efficiency gains' of the modern engine have gone.
The weight of cars has dramatically increased because the SAFETY of cars has dramatically increased. The last numbers I saw (2017?) was that a typical Camry had 600+ lbs of 'safety gear' on every car. Additional weight has gone into 'crumple zones' and protective structures around passengers. On a good day, my first car - a Datsun B110 - could get 45+ MPH. It had a curb weight of 1500 lbs and would have a 1-star crash rating! Coupled with acceleration of most cars also being prioritized, that's where all the 'efficiency gains' of the modern engine have gone.
Steam Flyer
Sophisticated Yet Humble
A couple billion of us didn't.
giegs
Super Anarchist
- 1,055
- 555
All of this and a huge chunk of the plastics conversation ties into pace of life considerations. Living fast generally produces a lot of waste.
Definitely a marketing or HR person to be so dumb about the reality of life.
sparau
Super Anarchist
Cite for cars losing efficiency? As you would expect I can find tests where poor functioning of components can cause this (o2 sensors, dirty plugs ...) but nothing to display a 20% loss off efficiency due to ??
Solar panels degrade due to well understood factors unrelated to automotive issues.
sparau
Super Anarchist
Lol, no, i'm a facts person.
I might have built houses, rebuilt cars, do my own plumbing, carpentry but i've never worked in marketing.
Your 'cars become less efficient' belief is only backed up if you perform a rigorous 'no maintenance' schedule
My, I have certainly not missed your continual idiocy. Good to see you are still happy to shit on the poor.
So HR?Lol, no, i'm a facts person.
I might have built houses, rebuilt cars, do my own plumbing, carpentry but i've never worked in marketing.
Your 'cars become less efficient' belief is only backed up if you perform a rigorous 'no maintenance' schedule
I guess you are not following a rigorous 'no maintenance ' scheduleon your lovely e-bike and so can look forward to exactly the same performance for decades to come.
3to1
Super Anarchist
if you think doing right by the planet basically amounts to shitting on the 'poor' and that's the 'argument' you're going with here, you should probably stfu.
use what little imagination you may have to consider work-arounds that would render that point of view as more of a stalling tactic and stupid as fk.
sparau
Super Anarchist
Data Analyst currently if you want to know.
E-bikes like E.V.'s do require much less maintenance then ICE's, my older e-bike has now 6,000km on it and requires $200- worth of bearings in the main shaft of the motor. It will still do 100km in a charge at 6 years old and yes I will keep using it for years to come as good battery care is easy.
Seriously trying to have a logical discussion with you is like trying to catch a cloud, it's just vapour, no substance.
Alan H
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #497
Gissie, I have an old high school buddy who ranted about the costs of California supermarkets reducing the number of single-use plastic bags in the produce departments. I, and others, pointed out that a reusable cloth shopping bag works just fine.
NO NO! said he! reusable cloth shopping bags are EXPENSIVE, and by doing this, the State Government is dumping on poor people. And of course, disease rates will skyrocket because of the bacteria in those bags.
Gissie, I'm really tired of continual excuses like that one. And yours. It's very simple.
Today, and maybe tomorrow, and next week making economic changes to tremendously reduce the use of plastic will cost money and poorer economies will be affected. Yes. Agreed. The thing is, the world doesn't end, next week. There's the week after that and next month and next year and the next 100 years where NOT having so much plastic shit in the ocean, in fresh water, in EVERYTHING including our own tissues as it degrades into microplastics will do the most important single thing in the whole wide world according to you (apparently). SAVE MONEY.
Gissie, there are more values in the world than the one that is based on the dollar...or the yen, or the pound or the Euro, or whatever currency you use. MONEY is not the be-all, end-all of every human decision.
There's a huge amount of confusion in the first world about what we as humans NEED and what we as humans WANT. Joe Sixpack thinks he NEEDS that new truck every three years. He doesn't. Sam Sloop ghinks he NEEDS a new sailboat every six years. He doesn't. Theresa TeeVee thinks she needs a new television every time a new model comes out. She doesn't. And so on.
NO NO! said he! reusable cloth shopping bags are EXPENSIVE, and by doing this, the State Government is dumping on poor people. And of course, disease rates will skyrocket because of the bacteria in those bags.
Gissie, I'm really tired of continual excuses like that one. And yours. It's very simple.
Today, and maybe tomorrow, and next week making economic changes to tremendously reduce the use of plastic will cost money and poorer economies will be affected. Yes. Agreed. The thing is, the world doesn't end, next week. There's the week after that and next month and next year and the next 100 years where NOT having so much plastic shit in the ocean, in fresh water, in EVERYTHING including our own tissues as it degrades into microplastics will do the most important single thing in the whole wide world according to you (apparently). SAVE MONEY.
Gissie, there are more values in the world than the one that is based on the dollar...or the yen, or the pound or the Euro, or whatever currency you use. MONEY is not the be-all, end-all of every human decision.
There's a huge amount of confusion in the first world about what we as humans NEED and what we as humans WANT. Joe Sixpack thinks he NEEDS that new truck every three years. He doesn't. Sam Sloop ghinks he NEEDS a new sailboat every six years. He doesn't. Theresa TeeVee thinks she needs a new television every time a new model comes out. She doesn't. And so on.
Fah Kiew Tu
Curmudgeon, First Rank
The opinion of most here seems to be we can do something immediately. Single use plastics can be dropped immediately. That without this the world is going to die. Any increased cost to be ignored, especially the effects on those at the bottom of our societies. Although it would be interesting to see if the same attitude would hold if the cost consumed all the discretionary spending of these people, causing real distress.
My opinion is different, shock and horror to some. Is plastic a problem, certainly. Do we have the resources and spare energy to stop using them, not so much. We need to change, but at the same time we also need to ensure the cost is spread in a fair way.
Not really very different, but to me more realistic. Sorry for upsetting some with my heretical thoughts, I will leave the echo chamber alone in its thought.
My opinion is different, shock and horror to some. Is plastic a problem, certainly. Do we have the resources and spare energy to stop using them, not so much. We need to change, but at the same time we also need to ensure the cost is spread in a fair way.
Not really very different, but to me more realistic. Sorry for upsetting some with my heretical thoughts, I will leave the echo chamber alone in its thought.
phill_nz
Super Anarchist
slightly off topic
but as
a/ im buying a good electric bike
and
b/ .. its about bikes .. and they are better enviro wise
where do you pay $200 for a few bearings ..
what makes them so special .. couple of dollars each is about standard for bike sized ones i would think
