MultiThom
Super Anarchist
I wonder how they will move that beast without engine,
Corsair 880 or Dragonfly 28 for solo ocean passages?
- Thread starter SPatton
- Start date
MultiThom
Super Anarchist
The difference is the monos can carry lots of people while multi's "could" carry lots of people but would be very slow once they got to sailing while the mono won't notice the extra half ton of people. Speaking of human propulsion...I carry swim fins...I figure I can get out and push my boat easy enough (the water while cold is not debilitating most of the year and no sharks where I sail). Lots of nice things about little boats.
boardhead
Anarchist
Fast monohulls are as weight sensitive as multihulls.
boardhead
Anarchist
Huh - Class 40 mono vs 40' multi singlehanded, no gymnastics, no canting keel - the mono is faster!
I started a thread on the subject ie - when did we lose the speed advantage? Any ideas?
Yes, I remember the thread. I'm agreeing with your idea that monos are "weight sensitive" just in a different way. I personally don't think that the Corsair 880 being heavier is such a great disadvantage, especially in a race like the R2AK where there's a good chance for strong weather, logs etc. Multithom said the 880 is only good for "family cruising." I disagree. Interestingly, and to your point, it seems to me that the design idea behind a mono is to build everything as light as possible then add a big weight somewhere so they can apply horsepower. The class 40 monos have huge bulbs on the end of very long struts. I think last year's R2AK winner had water ballast? Other monos simply add a bunch of meat to the rail to be able to sail properly. A guy was trying to sell me on the idea of a 35 footer that needs 10 people to race. The venerable Olson 30 carries 8. 8 humans to race a 30 footer that was considered lightly built! And don't forget the ultralight, ultra narrow G32 cat. Oops, it needs water ballast too. Ok, I'm done.
MultiThom
Super Anarchist
Well, what I said it is a family cruiser and not a race boat. I still think so. R2AK is not handicapped...put an 880 in a handicapped race and it will suck rocks compared to similar boats with better weight per length (e.g., F28R). Granted, rating committees can be generous occasionally...which, by the way, is one reason why handicapped racing in bigger mixed fleet multihulls is a "good reason to go sailing" at best.
I am frankly surprised that some really rich guy hasn't made a racing mono with a bulb made from some super dense material (like depleted uranium or something dense but not radioactive). Of course, now that we know how to use foils better, the speed winners will fly above the water.
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What's the point of a handicap system if it doesn't rate the boat based on all measurable factors? Of course, the alternative is one design, obviously better competition but not always available. The one design guys mostly race on ungainly pigs anyway. So, I agree that the 880 is not optimized for all out performance like the Marstrom 32 but all things considered it looks like a reasonably fast, comfortable boat. And of course, as you pointed out, foiling is already establishing itself as the way to go. Some of the drone footage from the IMOCAs is really astonishing. The fact that they foiled at very high speeds across the southern ocean is mind bugglin.
MultiThom
Super Anarchist
Where do you get a drone that flies that fast? And the drone pilot has skills!
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boardhead
Anarchist
The boat is sailing at windspeed or better so the drone, suspended in that moving air, may only be doing 10 or 15 knots, airspeed.
Incredible footage and fascinating that the crew are surprised at the spectacle of their ride from inside the boat.
Imagine that boat is quite a bit slower than a MOD 70 or an ORMA 60 for that matter!
he b gb
Anarchist
The imoca ‘Holcim’ has just done 640 nm in 24 hrs, pretty amazing for a 60 foot mono. It’s also beaten Comanches’ record! Does anyone know the 60’ multihull 24hr record?Seems like our multihull hopes now lay with captain Donald on ‘Defiant’
Airwick
Member
The imoca ‘Holcim’ has just done 640 nm in 24 hrs, pretty amazing for a 60 foot mono. It’s also beaten Comanches’ record! Does anyone know the 60’ multihull 24hr record?Seems like our multihull hopes now lay with captain Donald on ‘Defiant’
There are no "modern" 60' tri to compare though... But I agree monos have gotten a lot faster lately and foiling is bringing it to the "next level".
Multicoque de 60 pieds (ORMA)[modifier | modifier le code]
| Date | Distance (milles) | Vitesse (nœuds) | Skipper(s) | Bateau | Type de bateau | Équipage | Cadre du record et lieu |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 14 novembre 2007 | 667 | 27,79 |
Pascal Bidégorry et Y. Ravussin | Banque Populaire | trimaran | les deux skippers | Pendant la transat Jacques Vabres |
My cousin does media (currenly onboard Bitoherm in The Ocean Race) and the Imocas aren't that crazy (they do go fast but not with the apparent wind that far forward) but he was telling me on Actual Ultime he needed a "racing" drone to keep up once they hit about 40kt in boatspeed! Or for "promo" shoots they would have to slow down for the drone to catch up between "shots".
Meant to say: multihulls are still more weight sensitive than monos as the wetted surface just increases faster with multiple hulls. But the heavier the boat to start with the less the crew weight ads relative the the empty boat so "heavy" boat isn't necessarily bad for something like the R2AK, will be interesting to see how they do.
I was very surprised last year to learn that a "light" (it's all relative...) F24 could keep up with loaded up F9/F31 going upwind in 30kt and big seas.
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MultiThom
Super Anarchist
That wasn't a big surprise to me having sailed my F242 to the Farallones and keeping up with a F31 on a couple occasions. In my case, I was full sail in the breeze while he was reefed. He was sailing wide, I was pointing/pinching and sliding down the front of swells. The F242 is underpowered in easy wind but comes alive in the big breeze and hardly ever needs to be reefed (in 12 years that I owned mine, only reefed a handful of times).
Airwick
Member
Interesting.
In this instance we all put two reefs in pretty quickly and I would have expected the longer waterline, bigger boats to have a significant edge in speed in rough seas.
PJAZZ
New member
MultiThom
Super Anarchist
Ain't that the truth. Current boat...My weight is 20% of the boat weight. With two, we represent an additional 40% of the bare boat. Previous boat (F242), my weight was 10% of the boat weight. With a crew of 3 people we added to 30% over boat weight. Current boat literally wallows with 3 people on board. Former boat, Didn't notice a significant difference with 3 vs 2, but boat was noticeably slower with 4. Weird things...former boat it really made a difference where you put bodies. People outboard and forward in light stuff changed rake and heel...current boat...doesn't really seem to make a difference if I'm outboard or in cockpit--much skinnier main hull and forward aka is aft of the mast a little.
