Corsair/Farrier Anarchy

[trisail]

Anyone here racing offshore/ocean with a Corsair/Farrier?

Yep, I raced my backyard built F9AX double handed 1800 miles accross from Cape Town to St Helena in the South Atlantic.
First to finish.
We carried the bare minimum, hardly any electronics and only the most basic sails. Solar panels for power.
The boat loved the open ocean.

Sold the boat and the new owner did the same race three times, always first to finish.

Not a squeek comming out of the boat now 14 years old.

Pic of us setting out down the coast for Cape Town start.

 

[jdazey]

Wow! Great story and nice looking boat.

 

[J_Grove]

As a Corsair owner, my number two worry about doing an open ocean race in gnarly PNW conditions, after the inexperience of the skipper, would be that my vintage 1990 F-27 beams are now in the third cycle of the 15 year warranty period listed in the original brochure. I keep up with "beam maintenance", but the unknowns of composite fatigue failure (as discussed here last year), and at least two tales of F-27 floats breaking away at the beam, give me pause before attempting a Dry Tortugas or Bimini. As IF said, if you don't want to worry about it, ground down the flanges and wrap the beams. Short of that, perhaps better to hitch a ride on the new local 880 to those destinations, and enjoy your F-27 within Biscayne and Florida bays for years to come.

 

[munt]

Trisail! You are a true macho man! Bravisimo!

 

[D Wayne G]

I raced my F9AR Redshift 4 up in the Vic Maui race years ago. Never even broke a string. Raced Redshift hard for 20 years on and offshore and she never once complained. Through no fault of hers I did manage to tip her over coming into Victoria once. My own damn fault. What a boat!

 

[Russell Brown]

Yep, I raced my backyard built F9AX double handed 1800 miles accross from Cape Town to St Helena in the South Atlantic.
First to finish.
We carried the bare minimum, hardly any electronics and only the most basic sails. Solar panels for power.
The boat loved the open ocean.

Sold the boat and the new owner did the same race three times, always first to finish.

Not a squeek comming out of the boat now 14 years old.

Pic of us setting out down the coast for Cape Town start.

Where's that great photo of the boat at the start in wild weather?

 

[trisail]

Where's that great photo of the boat at the start in wild weather?

Hallo,
This one? Classic shot.
New owners sailing it, taller rig, fancy sails, not my pic.

I was inspired to take mine offshore by Mike Birch/ Third Turtle/ Olympus Photo.

 

[Wess]

I remember that. Great pic.

 

[deminimis]

Hey, I got busy. A day late, but she's inside now (mostly).

 

[don54321]

As a Corsair owner, my number two worry about doing an open ocean race in gnarly PNW conditions, after the inexperience of the skipper, would be that my vintage 1990 F-27 beams are now in the third cycle of the 15 year warranty period listed in the original brochure. I keep up with "beam maintenance", but the unknowns of composite fatigue failure (as discussed here last year), and at least two tales of F-27 floats breaking away at the beam, give me pause before attempting a Dry Tortugas or Bimini. As IF said, if you don't want to worry about it, ground down the flanges and wrap the beams. Short of that, perhaps better to hitch a ride on the new local 880 to those destinations, and enjoy your F-27 within Biscayne and Florida bays for years to come.

Its a point well taken given that I will also most likely buy a 25 year old boat due to budget. I admire your sober priorities.

 

[jdazey]

Yes, this adds an interesting perspective. I'd like to have someone to race against in the Pacific Northwest Offshore in 2023. It appears that the only multis interested in racing around here are Corsair/F boats, and conditions last year certainly got "gnarly" (35+) in the middle of the first night. Do the 31s have a better reputation for holding together?

 

[SPatton]

Hey all, just found this thread.

I sail an F-28 in Belize City, but I have big dreams of sailing beyond the reef one day (just like my hero Moana).

Just wanted to comment to save this thread for future reference (hopefully SA works that way, I'm new around here).

 

[J_Grove]

I wouldn't say that F27s have a reputation for not holding together - if anything they have a reputation as one of the more overbuilt Corsairs. Over 400 were produced and I only know of two cases from the forums (could have been more) where a beam failed without warning while sailing in ocean waves. F27 beams do have a known issue with glue failure along the flange joining the two halves of the beam (staying on top of this is the beam maintenance I referred to) but it's not clear that this issue had anything to do with the beams completely breaking. (In the case least year, the owner had been totally on top of beam maintenance prior to failure and no known prior collisions).

It's more that F27s are the oldest Corsairs, with however many more thousands of cycles of wave stress on the beams. I know there are plenty of older multihulls out there still performing. But to say it another way, my boat is a 1990 and my son is 9 years old ... is it crazy to expect to pass the boat on to him someday to sail for another 30 years? At what point do fiberglass beams just wear out?

Could be the answer to that is "no one knows but we're about to find out". No one wants to add to the data points with their boat, which makes me wonder if there are owners of older boats out there that choose to avoid hard offshore racing based on risk to old beams. It's not a popular topic for the forums I suspect because sooner or later someone will remind that you are hurting the resale value of your boat by even bringing it up.

 

[MultiThom]

There have been studies on fatigue failure of fiberglass. I think that may be where Ian got the design lifespan back in the day. But so much depends on the amount of deflection, the period of deflection, the original layup and down to the resins used and skill of the applicator. The nice thing about F27s is that Ian did the QC for Corsair back in the day. I would certainly trust an old Fboat over a cboat since management was not as QC oriented once Ian left.

 

[don54321]

We should all have the same doubts and concerns with the new designs too. If I remember correctly, the early Melges 24's were losing their composite keels. We all have heard of wildly expensive raceboats dropping keels too. Not too different than beams. Lightly built, by design, boats are just more subject to failure. It is one thing to model forces on a bar of aluminum, and completely another with a composite part, subject to many variables, including workmanship, curing environment, and supply chain variations.

One could hypothesize that if J_Grove's boat has been sailed mostly in mild benign conditions, that it is good as new, and better yet, occasionally tested. Since the loads in extreme conditions are so much greater than average, the effects of typical usage on sheltered bays may be of minimal significance. That said, if any beams on similar boats have failed without known cause, and there are no ways to ensure the integrity of the beams, perhaps all owners of like boats should venture offshore only as part of an Armada of friends to lend assistance if necessary.

 

[deminimis]

Guessing many of you have already seen this one, although not a C/F

The story is on the 2Oceans1Rock FB page.

 

[MultiThom]

It's more that F27s are the oldest Corsairs, with however many more thousands of cycles of wave stress on the beams. I know there are plenty of older multihulls out there still performing. But to say it another way, my boat is a 1990 and my son is 9 years old ... is it crazy to expect to pass the boat on to him someday to sail for another 30 years? At what point do fiberglass beams just wear out?

Just want to point out that San Francisco Bay hosts a plethora of F27s of the 1990s vintage. They routinely compete offshore (and frankly, many bay races are more hazardous related to wind). One in particular is a 3 generation boat. Built like tanks.

 

[can-UK]

Anyone here racing offshore/ocean with a Corsair/Farrier?

I race my F28R in the Dubai to Muscat race. If we stick to the Iranian side of the Gulf of Oman we can be up to 100nm offshore.. well the friendly shore at least.

It’s 360nm and takes anywhere between 2 and 5 days depending on wind.

The main problem i face is being able to carry enough provisions for 3+ days. It really kills the speed.

Also, 28ft feels VERY small in 15-20ft waves and 30-40 knots of wind..

EDIT - The damage in the video was to a badly designed aftermarket rudder. We swapped it out for the heavy factory rudder and kept going.

 

[Wess]

Having owned and raced an older Corsair F27 I don’t agree the concern. Extremely well designed and built.

 

[SPatton]

I race my F28R in the Dubai to Muscat race. If we stick to the Iranian side of the Gulf of Oman we can be up to 100nm offshore.. well the friendly shore at least.

It’s 360nm and takes anywhere between 2 and 5 days depending on wind.

The main problem i face is being able to carry enough provisions for 3+ days. It really kills the speed.

Also, 28ft feels VERY small in 15-20ft waves and 30-40 knots of wind..

EDIT - The damage in the video was to a badly designed aftermarket rudder. We swapped it out for the heavy factory rudder and kept going.

Nice video!

It looks like you have two running backstays rigged up. I've never seen that on a Corsair--my F-28 just has the two side shrouds and that's it. It looks better to me to see two strings per side to hold the mast up.

How are they attached to the mast? Through the same shackle as the shrouds, or a separate fitting?