Cost Of Custom Race Boats

rgeek

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Used to sail on a H/T that was, when new, the most expensive boat ever built per ft. Awesome boat.

 

darth reapius

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Straya
I'm pretty sure it couldn't be done here for sub $100K - it'll need $40K of sails alone.
What the hell sort of sails are you putting on a 30 footer... 3 carbon jibs, code 0, carbon main, and a couple kites? 

SloopJonB,

To build a 30 footer custom with a carbon rig and basic sails I can see $100k + just in materials and labor and transport on top of that. So a 30 footer would cost you $250-$350 and would take 12-16 weeks at best with a good team.

pulpit
What would you guess for lower tech, glass vinyl foam hull with alloy rig material cost? I am assuming you are saying carbon nomex hull with carbon rig material cost for 30'er is 100k?...

 

SloopJonB

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I don't think I'd get much change from $10K for a carbon main - it's a frac rig with a very big main.

I spoke to the original owner a while back and he had $40K in sails back in the days of Kevlar.

Main

Light & heavy 150's

3 smaller jibs

0.6, 0.75 and 1.2 Kites

Probably average out to $4K each even in Dacron assuming current construction styles (not just crosscut).

Maybe things are more expensive here - yards charge $100/hour and it takes a few hours to build a boat from scratch. ;)

 

Cal20sailor

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Was that Hot Flash, the bright finished Gougeon built boat?
Hot Flash.   Beautiful boat.  

Edit:  I feel very fortunate to have sailed multis and meet Jan and Meade.  Humble doesn't start given their accomplishments and their workmanship (the whole place but they led) was crazy good.  We in the sailing community are worse from their passing.  

 
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pulpit

Super Anarchist
SloopJonB,

To build a 30 footer custom with a carbon rig and basic sails I can see $100k + just in materials and labor and transport on top of that. So a 30 footer would cost you $250-$350 and would take 12-16 weeks at best with a good team.

pulpit
What would you guess for lower tech, glass vinyl foam hull with alloy rig material cost? I am assuming you are saying carbon nomex hull with carbon rig material cost for 30'er is 100k?...
darth reapius

So how basic do you want to go ?

A alloy rig is still going to cost you $10-15K rigged ready to use and the carbon rig gives better performance.

The difference in cost for the resin is not that great and the benefits of using a better resin out weights the cost Polyester resin $4 kg, Vinyl ester resin $8 kg,  Epoxy Resin is about $16 kg when you are buying in bulk. At bear minimum I would build in Vinyl ester.

Low tech glass will save you money, the thing is you need more of it to get the same stiffness and strength. Woven glass DB/ Tri / Uni are all about $12-15 per /m and carbon is any wear from $25 - 50 per/m when buying in bulk

Now lets look at your motor, are we inboard or outboard ?  A inboard will cost you $12 -15k or a outboard is $2k. Yes I save money and weight with a outboard it can limit the races I can do.

Sails ? I can save money on sails and go low tech to save $$$$$$, the thing is it's my engine

darth, If I've just dropped big $$$$ into a new one off boat then i want the best boat I can afford with the best gear, otherwise I should of just bought a good secondhand boat. One off boats are not cheap and you can't compete with a production boat builder and what they build boats for. 

Mate, the only way you are going to save $$$$$$ on a new One Off boat is to home build it yourself with a few mates, The trade off is ? It will take longer to build.

pulpit

 

SloopJonB

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Hot Flash.   Beautiful boat.  

Edit:  I feel very fortunate to have sailed multis and meet Jan and Meade.  Humble doesn't start given their accomplishments and their workmanship (the whole place but they led) was crazy good.  We in the sailing community are worse from their passing.  
That was one of the sexiest boats ever - bright finish and that extreme stinger stern Mull liked so much.

When I bought my first edition of their book at the Port Townsend festival I was desperate to build one for myself but there was never enough time, money, space, tools etc. etc.

Had to remain a dream.

 

SloopJonB

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BravoBravo said:
Let’s see some sailing pics... last photo it was on the hard and it looked like you were living in it ;-)
It's not in action yet - two steps forward, one step back. Now the starter won't fire - I think it's the battery switch. My son & I did some hardware mounting today but that's likely the last work on it for a bit - I have another retaining wall to build and then a garden shed....and my left thumb feels like it's gone on strike so maybe not even those for a while. :D

 

darth reapius

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darth reapius

So how basic do you want to go ?
Great response, I've been really trying to mull around all the different cost saving methods Vs the trade offs.

Honestly close to race spec without spending triple the money for an extra 2 knots downwind sorta thing.

Carbon rig is a good point, I was curious to hear your opinion there. It's one thats always racked my brain, cost of the spar vs the performace/weight aloft.

 The resin is a tough one, I would happily roll with epoxy, but my allergy to epoxy has grown ever worse over the last couple home builds I have done. So I would lean to Vinyl. Polyester is an absolute no (I'm not a monster).

I'd also be sensible with sails, very consistent heavy conditions here. Nice main, nice 2, small kite. Take the hit on light days and look into expanding the inventory as time proceeds. 

The engine note is an incredibly tough one. Absolutely no idea there, but yeah I've run seen costs from 2k to 20k with everything from outboard to inboard to electric.

The thing I'll say on how far to go with a build... I don't want to go too far again, blow too much money and be too much faster than the next boat that we're just sailing alone. We made that mistake before and the racing got stale and I moved back into one design boats. So showing up at a club race here with a Fast 40+ is getting a little pointless IMO.

But yes, I should have said before, this is for the next home build project, been 18 months since the last one finished and I'm getting those post build blues and I've been brain storming a suitable new project which is at a good cost effective/fast boat crossover point. Some thing in the middle between an I550 and a fast 40+.

Great club racer/regatta boat which could be slept on over night and not be like a C&C 30 inside, but also not be silly heavy like the cruiser/racers.

 

pulpit

Super Anarchist
darth reapius

So how basic do you want to go ?


Great response, I've been really trying to mull around all the different cost saving methods Vs the trade offs.

Honestly close to race spec without spending triple the money for an extra 2 knots downwind sorta thing.

Carbon rig is a good point, I was curious to hear your opinion there. It's one thats always racked my brain, cost of the spar vs the performace/weight aloft.

 The resin is a tough one, I would happily roll with epoxy, but my allergy to epoxy has grown ever worse over the last couple home builds I have done. So I would lean to Vinyl. Polyester is an absolute no (I'm not a monster).

I'd also be sensible with sails, very consistent heavy conditions here. Nice main, nice 2, small kite. Take the hit on light days and look into expanding the inventory as time proceeds. 

The engine note is an incredibly tough one. Absolutely no idea there, but yeah I've run seen costs from 2k to 20k with everything from outboard to inboard to electric.

The thing I'll say on how far to go with a build... I don't want to go too far again, blow too much money and be too much faster than the next boat that we're just sailing alone. We made that mistake before and the racing got stale and I moved back into one design boats. So showing up at a club race here with a Fast 40+ is getting a little pointless IMO.

But yes, I should have said before, this is for the next home build project, been 18 months since the last one finished and I'm getting those post build blues and I've been brain storming a suitable new project which is at a good cost effective/fast boat crossover point. Some thing in the middle between an I550 and a fast 40+.

Great club racer/regatta boat which could be slept on over night and not be like a C&C 30 inside, but also not be silly heavy like the cruiser/racers.
So darth,

Were are you Sailing out of ?

A interesting option to think about is why noy buy a good second hand boat for the parts and build a new hull and use the parts off the second hand boat ?

The hull and deck are the cheapest part of the build and this way you could sail the donor boat until the new hull and deck are built and then change the parts over to the new boat and sell the old hull and deck off. I’ve seen Farr 30’s for under $50k and a great Thompson 28 in the same price range. A cheap way to get parts and a cheap way to build a new boat. 

Pulpit

 

SloopJonB

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A cheap used boat to restore IS the way I went. And always do.

I am just curious what it would cost now to do what the original owner did back in '82 when he commissioned my boat.

All my other boats have been production or semi-custom and I have a reasonable idea what a new "version" of them would cost but I have no experience with completely custom jobs, particularly at this level.

 
A

Amati

Guest
Great response, I've been really trying to mull around all the different cost saving methods Vs the trade offs.

Honestly close to race spec without spending triple the money for an extra 2 knots downwind sorta thing.

Carbon rig is a good point, I was curious to hear your opinion there. It's one thats always racked my brain, cost of the spar vs the performace/weight aloft.

 The resin is a tough one, I would happily roll with epoxy, but my allergy to epoxy has grown ever worse over the last couple home builds I have done. So I would lean to Vinyl. Polyester is an absolute no (I'm not a monster).

I'd also be sensible with sails, very consistent heavy conditions here. Nice main, nice 2, small kite. Take the hit on light days and look into expanding the inventory as time proceeds. 

The engine note is an incredibly tough one. Absolutely no idea there, but yeah I've run seen costs from 2k to 20k with everything from outboard to inboard to electric.

The thing I'll say on how far to go with a build... I don't want to go too far again, blow too much money and be too much faster than the next boat that we're just sailing alone. We made that mistake before and the racing got stale and I moved back into one design boats. So showing up at a club race here with a Fast 40+ is getting a little pointless IMO.

But yes, I should have said before, this is for the next home build project, been 18 months since the last one finished and I'm getting those post build blues and I've been brain storming a suitable new project which is at a good cost effective/fast boat crossover point. Some thing in the middle between an I550 and a fast 40+.

Great club racer/regatta boat which could be slept on over night and not be like a C&C 30 inside, but also not be silly heavy like the cruiser/racers.
The epoxy allergy issue is very real....

 

darth reapius

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Straya
The epoxy allergy issue is very real....
It really sucks, and is pretty common I hear.

A cheap used boat to restore IS the way I went. And always do.

I am just curious what it would cost now to do what the original owner did back in '82 when he commissioned my boat.

All my other boats have been production or semi-custom and I have a reasonable idea what a new "version" of them would cost but I have no experience with completely custom jobs, particularly at this level.
It's not bad, I find myself frustrated by most hull shapes I see here though, too many boats designed with little to no form stability, obviously for areas with less wind. Loads of great boats around where a simple refit will have you a nice weapon.

So darth,

Were are you Sailing out of ?

A interesting option to think about is why noy buy a good second hand boat for the parts and build a new hull and use the parts off the second hand boat ?

The hull and deck are the cheapest part of the build and this way you could sail the donor boat until the new hull and deck are built and then change the parts over to the new boat and sell the old hull and deck off. I’ve seen Farr 30’s for under $50k and a great Thompson 28 in the same price range. A cheap way to get parts and a cheap way to build a new boat. 

Pulpit
Sail in Perth, probably had 60 days on the water this year, and like 6 in less than 12 knots of breeze, and half of them were twilights.

Yeah I've looked at some really nice boats out there, annoyingly some of them are really close to what I want and also at quite decent prices.

At least I have a boat already and have plenty other commitments so I'm not rushing into anything, but also can't decide what to do. Funnily enough there's a nice Thompson 870 for sale which I thought would make a wicked donor, we had one (a T7) before and our thought everything was great on the boat, rig, sails, keel, rudder, but it just had an awful hull shape, it was so round and narrow on the waterline it was a rocket in the light stuff, but needed 6 fat guys on the rail to keep it upright in a blow and if you fixed that it'd be a great boat.

 
I'm curious what doing something like that would cost nowadays. I know it would be solidly into 6 figures but I'm hoping someone here can get it a bit more specific.
I'm in the process of building a custom 30ft trailerable, shorthanded, ocean racer...

I'll let you know the cost once the initial designs are completed and I start bidding it out to several yards. It's definitely not looking to be sub $100k if that's what you're wondering lol. 

 

SloopJonB

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Cheers.

I know it won't be 5 figures - I'm just curious what a little more specific figure would be.

What you're doing sounds like a pretty good comparison.

 

mad

Super Anarchist
I'm in the process of building a custom 30ft trailerable, shorthanded, ocean racer...

I'll let you know the cost once the initial designs are completed and I start bidding it out to several yards. It's definitely not looking to be sub $100k if that's what you're wondering lol. 
Would you be happy to share any details of the design and build process, such as materials and tooling/method of construction?

Carbon/epoxy with various core materials or monolithic, hand laid glass/polyester?

All female tooling or built over plugs?

These things can make a huge difference in the final price of the build, I really don’t think blanket statements saying it only costs X amount of $$$ to build a 30 foot hull provide a fair overview of a build project. 

 
A

Amati

Guest
I'm in the process of building a custom 30ft trailerable, shorthanded, ocean racer...

I'll let you know the cost once the initial designs are completed and I start bidding it out to several yards. It's definitely not looking to be sub $100k if that's what you're wondering lol. 
Who’s designing it?  What rule are you designing it to? 

Granted it was 20 years ago, but we had a great experience with Schooner Creek, COVE.  Steve was still there.  They should be able to give you references.

Used to be around 40’ was the sweet spot for COVE vs carbon, but it’s conceivable state of the Art has improved the sweet spot, and it was then, also, at least, more economical and quicker than other building methods. (So much quicker they got the hull laid up before we could get down there and gawk.) Some of the bids we got were jaw droppingly expensive.  Amati is D/L 96.

Might give them a call, or go visit, they are close enough to get down there a lot (like driving) to watch things going together, which is worth it’s weight.  If I could give you a few tiny pieces of advice, once you get the design finalized, don’t change anything during the build if you want to stay at budget.  Stay simple.  Not going gold plated everything will save many $$$,$$$.  

This is one of the coolest things you’ll ever do-  :)

 
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mad

Super Anarchist
Who’s designing it?  What rule are you designing it to? 

Granted it was 20 years ago, but we had a great experience with Schooner Creek, COVE.  Steve was still there.  They should be able to give you references.

Used to be around 40’ was the sweet spot for COVE vs carbon, but it’s conceivable state of the Art has improved the sweet spot, and it was then, also, at least, more economical and quicker than other building methods. (So much quicker they got the hull laid up before we could get down there and gawk.) Some of the bids we got were jaw droppingly expensive.  Amati was D/L 96.

Might give them a call, or go visit, they are close enough to get down there a lot (like driving) to watch things going together, which is worth it’s weight.  If I could give you a few tiny pieces of advice, once you get the design finalized, don’t change anything during the build if you want to stay at budget.  Stay simple.  Not going gold plated everything will save many $$$,$$$.  

This is one of the coolest things you’ll ever do-  :)
This bit especially. 

 
A

Amati

Guest
I inquired about this sort of thing a few weeks ago, but asked the designer directly.  They said the sub-30 foot racer-cruiser I was asking about would be anywhere between $60 and $100k depending on what country it was built in.  I'm assuming $100k in the States and $60 in Asia.  
Some designers know, and some don’t.  Talk to builders too.  Building with a mold is like building 2 boats.  It might be cheaper to build overseas, but currency fluctuation and shipping (and tariffs :lol: ) are going to clear your sinuses.  The bid we went with in the states was the least of all the bids foreign and domestic, and 20 years later, she’s chugging along just fine....

 
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