Cost Of Custom Race Boats

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
65,765
10,895
Great Wet North
Dazy (Sp) was gorgeous but was so expensive it was beyond even dreaming about in my 20's - could have bought a waterfront house here for what that boat would have cost to build.

Plus it had that dumb slingshot cockpit.

A Hot Flash was at least within the realm of possibility.

 

woahboy

Anarchist
921
197
North of DFW
Dazy (Sp) was gorgeous but was so expensive it was beyond even dreaming about in my 20's - could have bought a waterfront house here for what that boat would have cost to build.

Plus it had that dumb slingshot cockpit.

A Hot Flash was at least within the realm of possibility.
I believe I was the one who misspelled it. Here's Dazy and Marauder at the Weather Mark. Nice painting. '75 Canada's Cup. On mighty Lake Saint Claire. THE_WEATHER_MARK.jpg

 
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darth reapius

Super Anarchist
1,076
272
Straya
darth, 

Have you looked at building your new boat out of cedar or kirri and strip planking it ?

The reason I’m asking is back in the late 1980’s - 90’s the Australian BOC sailor David Adams Built his boat “True Blue” hull out of striped plank cedar. David said the weight difference between foam and cedar was only 50kgs more in the cedar and was half the cost of building a foam hull. 

Kirri or Paulownia is a Australian grown timber that is like cedar and could be a quick way to build a new hull and could save you money and only be a few kg’s heavier than a foam carbon hull.

pulpit
I have considered it, the last boat I built was a timber glass epoxy boat, that was an itchy year. It's a weapon of a boat, short of solid carbon/nomex carbon I don't think I could have built a boat like it as light and as strong.

I have nothing against the use of wood in a boat if done right. It is kept dry though, I don't know how I feel about timber boats being in the water for very long periods of time.... I also felt like I would be faster building foam glass not timber glass...

But that is a very good point, I haven't worked with Kirri or Baulownia before.

 

12 metre

Super Anarchist
3,779
632
English Bay
I have nothing against the use of wood in a boat if done right. It is kept dry though, I don't know how I feel about timber boats being in the water for very long periods of time.... 
There is a 35+ year old overly canvassed cold molded (cedar I believe)  lightweight 30 footer currently advertised here on SA that has lived it's whole life in salt water AFAIK and still looked solid albeit a little rough around the edges when I viewed her this past winter https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/martin-30-3/

 

darth reapius

Super Anarchist
1,076
272
Straya
There is a 35+ year old overly canvassed cold molded (cedar I believe)  lightweight 30 footer currently advertised here on SA that has lived it's whole life in salt water AFAIK and still looked solid albeit a little rough around the edges when I viewed her this past winter https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/martin-30-3/
Nice looking boat that! It's not so much the materials that worry me but the workmanship, I trust my work, but I was on a 44' flybridge cruiser recently which had been extended from 36'... And this extension had only been finished in the last couple of years, and that back 8' portion of the boat was already soft in places.

 

Moore Play

Member
65
20
Hawaii
Thread Drift I think. SLB's OP re: how much to build something similar to a formula/spec, design box like the old lower/mid ton ratings.Two years ago I went looking for a mid 20' foot performance  boat that would excel in the islands wind & swell. I should have boughta one-off Dee's designed GP 26. When 1st built I believe the class market was anticipated  to be about +/-  $125k fitted out.  I missed out on getting Mr. Dee's design  for somewhere near 30k. Epoxy hull but carbon keel strut & rig. A boat that would probly excel here. So maybe Mr. SLB is trying to get a relative value for the sweet looking boat he has rescued. I loved the old 1/4 ton Yamaha Mk II I owned foe almost 15 years, even with all her obvious faults and flaws, but damn....... I wish I had bought that Dee's GP 26. Value/Cost? I would bet good money that it cost at least neat $100k for Mr. Dees to build that 1st boat, business plan probably looking to lower that in at least a small production run. Price point ~ $ 125k. But as a one-off in a class that never quite took off, $30 - 35k was a steal. Damn.... I wish I bought that boat! I know SLB adressed his post to people in the boat building industry, but I thought this might be relevant.

 

Black Jack

Super Anarchist
There Is another 1/2 toner boat in the classifeds. Truthfully it is irrational for me to keep working on my boat when this one is neatly sorted out. The exact materials to length to make my boat not longer exist in mass which sets the price beyond what I can afford even if I throw in my all my 401k and sell my kid’s kidney. When I look at my boats sister., I recognize the folly of my slow restoration.

30’ Gary Mull-designed PRETTY PENNY was built by Easom Boatworks in 1972. She is cold molded with fiberglass sheathing, Yanmar diesel, full sail inventory for San Francisco Bay, sleeps four, galley, VHF, instruments, Martec prop, recent haulout. A solid racer/cruiser, fast and easy to sail.    16k or reasonable offer. 

C7C0ED7B-2BF6-4B87-8996-8DA156A08DEA.jpeg

 
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Truthfully it is irrational for me to keep working on my boat when this one is neatly sorted out.
You are absolutely correct. It is fully financially irrational to build custom, or to buy new for that matter, unless a very specific set of conditions can't be found or substituted for within an existing design.

Unfortunately for sellers, boats are unlike homes in which added equipment does not necessarily equal increased value. However, as you can see in your example above, this can be quite a fortunate "feature" for used boat buyers.

 
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SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
65,765
10,895
Great Wet North
There Is another 1/2 toner boat in the classifeds. Truthfully it is irrational for me to keep working on my boat when this one is neatly sorted out. The exact materials to length to make my boat not longer exist in mass which sets the price beyond what I can afford even if I throw in my all my 401k and sell my kid’s kidney. When I look at my boats sister., I recognize the folly of my slow restoration.

30’ Gary Mull-designed PRETTY PENNY was built by Easom Boatworks in 1972. She is cold molded with fiberglass sheathing, Yanmar diesel, full sail inventory for San Francisco Bay, sleeps four, galley, VHF, instruments, Martec prop, recent haulout. A solid racer/cruiser, fast and easy to sail.    16k or reasonable offer. 

View attachment 313223
If I lived in SF I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

Gorgeous boat.

 
Mr. Sloop, I think the closest thing you are going to find in a modern setting would be the Left Coast Dart. Not sure how far north of 100 K the 5 boats produced are fetching right now. Having looked into Ogopogo from the wrong side of the bull rails, it looks like a comfortable compromise between racing , and being able to sleep aboard at a regatta. They are plenty quick on the water, too. It will be interesting what remains around in the next 2 decades. Hoping it's not all J70s in ten years...

 

Ex Machina

Anarchist
636
242
New Zealand
Mr. Sloop, I think the closest thing you are going to find in a modern setting would be the Left Coast Dart. Not sure how far north of 100 K the 5 boats produced are fetching right now. Having looked into Ogopogo from the wrong side of the bull rails, it looks like a comfortable compromise between racing , and being able to sleep aboard at a regatta. They are plenty quick on the water, too. It will be interesting what remains around in the next 2 decades. Hoping it's not all J70s in ten years...
The last left coast  dart I saw for sale was well south of 100k . Can’t remember how much but we think even the new darts were well south of 100k

 

jerseyguy

Super Anarchist
The Dart that went to Hawaii was listed for sale this past spring at $47,500.  Jim sold one in sort of an auction setup.  Price went down by $1000/week until sold.  I think it went for under $50k. 

 
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bjp

New member
Dazy (Sp) was gorgeous but was so expensive it was beyond even dreaming about in my 20's - could have bought a waterfront house here for what that boat would have cost to build.

Plus it had that dumb slingshot cockpit.

A Hot Flash was at least within the realm of possibility.
Anybody know what happened to Hot Flash?

 
something like COVE might work, which simplifies fairing
Um, you should watch this happen some time.

On a cold moulded boat, each layer needs to be faired, and its wood with glue so its much harder to fair than foam. So a three layer hull requires FIVE fairing efforts of wood, with variations in density (wood, glue, staples, air gaps, filler). Nothing is flat, so this is long board manual fairing.

Even with COVE, where there is a layer of wood, then a layer of balsa, then a layer of wood, then covered with structural glass inside and out still requires: fairing the inside of the inner skin, then the outside of the inner skin (to get a good bond with the balsa), then the outside of the outer wood skin, and then the outside of the outer glass skin. FIVE fairing efforts, four of wood, one of glass, so barely easier than a cold moulded boat.

Someone might say that only the outer layer needs fairing. Nope, any unfairness is amplified by each layer: your boat would look like it was ferro cement by a drunk plumber. Weight, delimitation, and loss of strength is also a cost of not doing the fairing.

A foam cored glass boat: ONE fairing of foam and ONE fairing of the outside hull lamination, which is surprisingly smooth because of the high surface tension of the outer lamination. Interior is actually decently smooth without fairing, especially with a inner layer of mat. So less and much easier fairing effort.

The cost is almost all in the labor, unless its a very high tech build.

There is an economic reason wood boats are no more.

 
A

Amati

Guest
My recollection is that the major fairing was the initial inner layer of port orford cedar, with each layer ( klegecell, then more cedar) taking less and less fairing.  In between was unidirectional e glass, aligned with load paths.  In fact, the outer layer hardly required fairing. The cedar was also aligned with loadpaths, the inner layer diagonal, the outer layer longitudinal.  As far as longevity, a Farr 40 foam/Fiberglas and Amati suffered pretty much the same accident years ago - banging the keel on the bottom-  we had some cracked and shattered bulkheads and some damage to the keel son, but no leaks.  The Farr’s keel tried to become a centerboard, to the surprised of the hull.  
 

IMHO, Wood can be as economic as a builders’ wit.

 
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