Craigslist finds- Tragedy edition

accnick

Super Anarchist
3,810
2,796
I love the idea until I hear of some of the 'anchorages' for land yachts.

Then I think of a nice room or B&B for a few days, a light travel bag, comfortable transportation,...
A good friend of ours bought a big diesel Class A a couple of years ago, because his wife was having mobility and balance issues on the boat. That lasted about six months.

I asked him what the big problem was and he summed it up pretty well. "You have to stay in RV parks, where you are cheek by jowl with your neighbors, who always want to talk about their RVs. Have you seen the kind of people who stay in RV parks?"

Sadly, his wife died, but he is back on his boat. If he doesn't like the neighbors, he ups anchor and moves to another anchorage. It's pretty easy to do that in Maine.

Even if there are multiple boats someplace, the occupants rarely bother you. Even if you know them, you don't necessarily do anything but wave at them from a distance.
 

Howler

Member
295
299
To the landsman, 50 feet doesn’t sound like much. “Honey, it’s not as big as our house but I think it’s the right size for us.”

To the sailor, 50 feet is a lot. I know of some folks, probably 60-ish, never sailed before, have sufficient money, and who bought their big fantasy sailboat, probabaly 45-ish feet long. Very steep learning curve (which is likely to trend downwards as they realize, especially for their experience level, that they’re way, way overboated...an RV, it ain’t (where you can buy bigger, to a point, without too much consideration). OTOH, the loads on big boats are big...which is shocking to discover when you don’t have any experience...)
Mrs Howler and I kinda know 35 foot performance-oriented boats raced with full crew, and we think about a cruising boat from time to time, and inevitably, after saying things like "Gee, the fully separate shower stall on that 42 is nice," we come back to "38 is nice because, for an old couple, 42 is a handful, plus everything you do has a surcharge the minute you go over 40." It's not even handling the sheets or reefing in snotty weather, it's every little thing you touch, like lifting a sail onto the deck, or handling the docklines with a crosswind. Astounding how much more gorilla factor is required when you go up a few feet.
 

Autonomous

Turgid Member
4,509
1,683
PNW
I love the idea until I hear of some of the 'anchorages' for land yachts.

Then I think of a nice room or B&B for a few days, a light travel bag, comfortable transportation,...
Not all anchorages are equal, as you know.
Remote BLM spots in Eastern Oregon, Northern Idaho, Western Montana, the Desert Southwest, etc. are just a few hours or maybe a day or two away.
 

Jud - s/v Sputnik

Super Anarchist
6,685
1,997
Canada
Not all anchorages are equal, as you know.
Remote BLM spots in Eastern Oregon, Northern Idaho, Western Montana, the Desert Southwest, etc. are just a few hours or maybe a day or two away.
That’s why I think those kitted out Econoline 4x4s are perfect as an RV - you can drive them in the backcountry, off road, etc. RV, but a 4x4. Winter travel fine too. I would never want to be anywhere near an RV park…
 

Jud - s/v Sputnik

Super Anarchist
6,685
1,997
Canada
after saying things like "Gee, the fully separate shower stall on that 42 is nice," we come back to "38 is nice because, for an old couple, 42 is a handful, plus everything you do has a surcharge the minute you go over 40."
I’ve got a 33’ - as much as I ever want, I think. (Plus it fits in my property/near the house if I ever want to store it/do a major job on it again.) Enough room for two, easy to singlehand. If the kid ever returns with a partner, and we do a cruise, well, it’ll have to work :). I’m not spending any more of my life outfitting another (bigger) boat! :) )
 
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steele

Super Anarchist
1,776
253
Land of the locks
I was thinking about valuable possessions that end up decomposing somewhere and they have some similar attributes. RVs, boats, and luxury cars all rapidly lose value as the cost of ownership goes way up. You start in a honeymoon period with reliable new parts, warrantees, and a desire to keep you shiny new object in perfect condition. After a few years the pride of ownership declines and things start breaking. The cost of upkeep increases steadily as the value plummets. This doesn't happen with houses, yes they can be expensive to maintain but they hold or even increase in value. Less expensive cars are more reliable, and the cost of maintenance is reasonable since repairs and parts tend not to become more expensive over time compared to luxury cars. They also retain their value better on the used market compared to say an Audi or Mercedes.
At some point the luxury vehicle is sold, and a few years later sold again often to someone who does not understand how expensive it is to keep. Maintenance is deferred, non critical systems are not fixed when they fail, and in a few years it is growing mildew in a field or backwater marina.
 

2airishuman

The Loyal Opposition
1,012
487
Minneapolis area
I got a tour of a $750,000 RV last winter. I can’t imagine a more upside down investment, but the couple sold their home to tour the US and they are doing it. When they are done and the rv is 10 years old, it will be worth about $50,000. 😳
The market for these is people in their early 70s who have busted their asses all their life to accumulate a couple million dollars (and/or inherited money in their 60s) and don't know quite what to do with it. Nobody who is good with money and knows RVs buys those things.
 

2airishuman

The Loyal Opposition
1,012
487
Minneapolis area
A good friend of ours bought a big diesel Class A a couple of years ago, because his wife was having mobility and balance issues on the boat. That lasted about six months.

I asked him what the big problem was and he summed it up pretty well. "You have to stay in RV parks, where you are cheek by jowl with your neighbors, who always want to talk about their RVs. Have you seen the kind of people who stay in RV parks?"

RVs are both a lifestyle and a skill. Just as cruising boats are dependent on marinas, dinghy docks, and ability to anchor without running afoul of local law and custom, RVs are dependent upon a place to park. RVs in the 60s and early 70s could park more or less anywhere, and there was a tradition of leaving the equivalent of a clean wake. That has changed and a patchwork of state and local laws has forced RVs into designated campgrounds except in the mountain west and southwest.

The same transition is happening with anchorages, mooring fields, and marinas, 40 years later. Enjoy your cruising while you can before destination moorings, commercial for-profit marinas, and anchoring restrictions promulgated under the color of invasive species protection, sanitation, derelict boats, etc etc make cruising as it has been practiced in the past, impossible.

Anyway with the large class As the people who truly enjoy the lifestyle have specific destinations and goals in mind, and enjoy the many destinations that are particularly amenable to that form of travel. I had an Airstream for many years and spent hundreds of enjoyable nights in it despite limiting my travels to Minnesota and the surrounding states. Generally the smaller and more nimble RVs have more options open to them. With a 30' trailer and a 4wd tow vehicle we could go into many places where the class As could not.

We met some interesting people but we always saw the RV as a means to an end rather than an end in itself. So we were out hiking or canoeing or scuba diving or swiming or whatever and had plenty of things to talk about besides our RV. Certainly there were any number of rather one-dimensional individuals we encountered but we ran into some fun people also, including some real artisans who had built or rebuilt their own rigs.
 

2airishuman

The Loyal Opposition
1,012
487
Minneapolis area
That’s why I think those kitted out Econoline 4x4s are perfect as an RV - you can drive them in the backcountry, off road, etc. RV, but a 4x4. Winter travel fine too. I would never want to be anywhere near an RV park…

They're a set of tradeoffs that works for some people. You pay about $10,000 for the aftermarket 4wd upgrade alone for those. Vertical clearance, width, and ground clearance are all limiting even if you have the traction. I write this from the perspective of someone who has traveled with a pole saw to prune branches overhanging the road.

Generally, the B-vans mainly appeal as an enhanced form of travel from place to place for people who will stay in a hotel, airbnb, kid's basement, etc. at their destination but want to be able to stop and sleep and have breakfast on their own terms. Not enough space for one person let alone a couple for a longer stay unless you are in a situation where climate, land use policy, etc allow you to extend your living space outside or into adjacent buildings.

A 4x4 pickup with a slide-in camper offers similar capabilities and better resale, but you're up higher, and so you and any spouse or love interest you may have will have to be able to climb up the steps into the camper and from there to the bed over the cab.

Typically tankage and electrical power are the real limitations on these if you are away from a campground or other similar facilities.
 

woodtick

Member
Mrs Howler and I kinda know 35 foot performance-oriented boats raced with full crew, and we think about a cruising boat from time to time, and inevitably, after saying things like "Gee, the fully separate shower stall on that 42 is nice," we come back to "38 is nice because, for an old couple, 42 is a handful, plus everything you do has a surcharge the minute you go over 40." It's not even handling the sheets or reefing in snotty weather, it's every little thing you touch, like lifting a sail onto the deck, or handling the docklines with a crosswind. Astounding how much more gorilla factor is required when you go up a few feet.
Me too. When I bought the current boat I was thinking it was a stepping stone to a 42'R. I'm happy with 38 thank you.
 

Kris Cringle

Super Anarchist
3,435
3,109
The same transition is happening with anchorages, mooring fields, and marinas, 40 years later. Enjoy your cruising while you can before destination moorings, commercial for-profit marinas, and anchoring restrictions promulgated under the color of invasive species protection, sanitation, derelict boats, etc etc make cruising as it has been practiced in the past, impossible.

Certainly there were any number of rather one-dimensional individuals we encountered but we ran into some fun people also, including some real artisans who had built or rebuilt their own rigs.

I never take our local on the water freedom for granted. Especially seeing it slipping away on coasts down south even years ago. When we head off our mooring for a night or a few, there is not even thought of an area that is restricted or without land access on our coast.

Contrast that by where would I park an RV for the night in my area? The 'stealth camping' would have been fun when I was younger, but the thought of someone banging on my window at 2 am these days,...

There is probably a learning curve that I have no sense of. I have a few friends who do it successfully.
 

eastbay

Member
393
20
Oakland

This is a link to a listing for a Tanton 50 for $249,000. That's a significant delta.

It appears that they were built in Taiwan, although sailboatdata.com does not list a Tanton 50 as one of YMT's designs.

Do you think it would be wet core issues that would result in this degree of fucked-up-ed-ness? Hard to see what else could bring such an apparently fine boat to this state. "Kevlar hull" shonw in the CL ad- maybe that has something to do with it. Somewhere I got the idea that kevlar has proven to be a poor boatbuilding fabric.

Sorry for hijacking the RV/optimum boat size thread.
 

SemiSalt

Super Anarchist
7,830
311
WLIS
A big RV shows up in the driveway of a house near where I live. I assume visiting grandparents. I've noticed they remove a couple of tires/wheels. An anti-theft strategy, maybe?
 

kinardly

Super Anarchist
My Mom and Dad must have owned a dozen trailers and RVs in their lifetime. They would drive all over the country for a few years, then they would park it in the back of the garage for a few more, then sell at a big loss. Two years later they would go buy another and repeat. I could never understand why they kept throwing money at those things but then they could never understand why I would pay so much money for a boat, watch its value depreciate, pay yacht club dues, slip fees and maintenance.....oh, I think I get it.
 

bmiller

Super Anarchist
6,121
1,425
Buena Vista, Colorado
The market for these is people in their early 70s who have busted their asses all their life to accumulate a couple million dollars (and/or inherited money in their 60s) and don't know quite what to do with it. Nobody who is good with money and knows RVs buys those things.
The same can be said about sailboats. It's about what makes people happy. You're not taking it with you.
 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
71,062
13,859
Great Wet North
There's a fundamental difference between RV's and boats.

There is no alternative to a boat in terms of the places you can go with it - with the possible exception of float planes.

There are unlimited alternatives to RV travel - most more comfortable, more convenient and cheaper.
 
We did a travel trailer at a "young" age (30ish) compared to most people with RVs at the time. The wife and dog both hated it, and I was stuck trying to justify using the POS. Glad we got that of the way, but I do understand it.

The best part was seeing guys backing in their rigs with wife directing. That should be the test for boating. If a couple can't park an RV without near domestic violence, maybe docking isn't in the cards.
 

accnick

Super Anarchist
3,810
2,796
The same can be said about sailboats. It's about what makes people happy. You're not taking it with you.
It's not just sailboats. It's boats in general. They can cost a lot to own, but if you love being on the water, you will find a way.
 
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