Crazy furling jib cover idea - work with me here

Epi-sailor

Member
151
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PNW
I've found that the sock suffers from vortex shedding in any breeze and the whole forestay and the boat would start shuddering.   The solution was to spiral wrap a spare halyard, so the air flow was broken up.
We used the same halyard wrap for the same reason but ultimately had the “sock” recut to tailor fit the rolled sail.   As others have noted the sock also had lacings to snug the whole thing up. Sunbrella worked great for UV protection of 3di sail but PIA.  I’m not a fan of sunbrella sewn to the leach but debating it for our next cruising boat for ease of use - apparently getting old and lazy.   

 
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Max Rockatansky

DILLIGAF?
4,030
1,105
I used to sell this stuff.



It really had phenomenal holding power. For a demo we'd paint wax paper and roll it up when dry. I sold a quantity to a theatre company that wanted something to paint on canvas that was to be rolled up for storage, and they were really happy with it. 
I’m going to give it a go on my forward nets... more as it develops 

 

Bull City

A fine fellow
7,449
3,054
North Carolina
@Jud - s/v Sputnik I was just reminded that you are the O.P. You had every right to be indignant.

So which way are you leaning on the sail thingie? Sock, paint, nothing?

This is an aesthetic thing, a lot of folks, perhaps millions, use a Sunbrella UV strip on the foot and leach that matches the color of the rest of their canvas. All well and good, but I really don't like the look when the boat is sailing. I've gone with the strip to match the color of the sail. 

 

Bull City

A fine fellow
7,449
3,054
North Carolina
I used to sell this stuff.

image.png

It really had phenomenal holding power. For a demo we'd paint wax paper and roll it up when dry. I sold a quantity to a theatre company that wanted something to paint on canvas that was to be rolled up for storage, and they were really happy with it. 
Was that when you worked at Ace Hardware?  :D

image.png

 
610
36
This is an aesthetic thing, a lot of folks, perhaps millions, use a Sunbrella UV strip on the foot and leach that matches the color of the rest of their canvas. All well and good, but I really don't like the look when the boat is sailing. I've gone with the strip to match the color of the sail. 
Interesting. Years ago I read or heard that for UV protection black is preferred. Lighter colors provided considerably less protection almost to the point of being worthless. Maybe I was misled?

 

Bull City

A fine fellow
7,449
3,054
North Carolina
Interesting. Years ago I read or heard that for UV protection black is preferred. Lighter colors provided considerably less protection almost to the point of being worthless. Maybe I was misled?
You may be right about black. I remember the lady who made my sail cover held samples up to the sun, and the navy blue seemed to block more of the visible light than the tan. Also, the light UV panel is sacrificial according to my sailmaker.

Worthless? I don't know. My boat came with an older jib and main, probably 1980 sails. The jib had a light color UV strip, and was in very good shape, as was the main, which also had an off-white cover. Of course, it was a New England boat, and that had a lot to do with it.

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,981
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Tasmania, Australia
Sorry, Bull - that guy “barged in” with his extremely unhelpful, unpleasant comments and a hostile personal attack right from the beginning.  I’ve never seen that before.  I’ve no idea who it is, that person doesn’t know a thing about me, and I don’t take anonymous personal attacks from assholes lying down.  In retrospect, though, I realize anyone who does that —and yammers on and on and on, a rabid dog with an irritated anus that he can’t scratch— likely has underlying problems and isn’t worth spending any amount of time reading or replying to.  
That's why the forum has the ignore poster feature. I find that it works well for people like boink.

FKT

 

Russell Brown

Super Anarchist
1,892
1,670
Port Townsend WA
My wife made a sleeve type cover with a zipper for the jib on our boat and it's pretty easy to use. She made it from a less-expensive cloth called Odyssey 3. The hard part was figuring the diameter so that it wasn't too floppy, yet still fit. We have used the same cloth for boom tents and other stuff.

 

carcrash

Super Anarchist
2,078
529
Cabrillo Beach YC
I hate roller furler jibs: Weight aloft, windage, tacking at anchor, jamming when you really need to furl, damage to the sail when partially furled, and of course UV.

It is easier to hoist a hanked headsail than to furl a roller furling headsail. It is easy to drop a hanked headsail on deck.

I went with a carbon, fully battened 99% jib. Soft hanks (dyneema) on a dyneema headstay, so low friction and light, making hoisting easy. It stays on deck. I have a sail cover that clips on to the life lines so the sail stays just off the deck, so it dries and its easy to clean the decks.

The shape is perfectly stable because the carbon does not stretch, so no need for a bunch of headsails: this one works perfect all the time. Also, the lowest batten is at an angle, from clew to a more-or-less right angle at the headstay, so I can go DDW wing on wing without a whisker pole.

The carbon pole is the sprit for downwind sails. Note the "bull nose" instead of the old clam shell, and the bobstay spliced to the bow.

IMG_5895.jpeg

 

Max Rockatansky

DILLIGAF?
4,030
1,105
The deal with jib socks is this: think about how the jib is furled. There is a taper of furled sail, not unlike the brontosaurus*, from the head, widens to the furled clew, and then tapers back to the tack end. A straight cylinder sock will have to be baggy above and below the clew, a shaped sock won't be zippable over the clew, so the ATN lacing solution seems to be the best answer that I've seen.

Except as carcrash describes above, but my boat came with the furler, so I've just lived with it. When the jib dies, I will think about re-rigging...

_________

*seehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Elk's_Theory_on_Brontosauruses

 

Scowjunkie

New member
14
10
Maui
Behr housepaint... 33$ a gallon. you can do two or three sails, match any color you want, the sail rolls tighter, it's lighter, no stitching to die, and if done carefully will last for years keeping the UV off your sail.

this technology came from the experimental aircraft world, where they use 3.8 oz dacron for wing surfaces. they had trouble with UV so they tested lots of 'coatings' BEHR house paint was the best. Then I asked several friends in the sail cloth biz, suppliers we had worked with for thirty years, what about that UVR patch material and UVR leech tapes. Isn't Titanium Dioxide really just the base of white paint? All three agreed it was. so the fancy UVR stuff was just white painted, essentially.

So we started getting people who had older sails who wanted to save them for more life, people who weren't so interested in spending hundreds to have heavy Sunbrella sewn on again, a fix that would last longer than the sail. They easily ripped off the old dead leech covers and painted what had been the covered area. yes, the color bleeds through the old stitch holes (paint both sides if that bugs you) and you do have to treat it like painting, put it on thinner rather than thick, keep a good wet line going, all that.

Just like that house paint keeps your siding and porch in good shape, so it does on your sail. 

Too fuckin' easy

call me stiks

aloha

 

Jud - s/v Sputnik

Super Anarchist
6,958
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Canada
Behr housepaint... 33$ a gallon. you can do two or three sails, match any color you want, the sail rolls tighter, it's lighter, no stitching to die, and if done carefully will last for years keeping the UV off your sail.

this technology came from the experimental aircraft world
Cool, thanks for the info.  I’ve actually read that elastomeric house/building paint works very well - extremely flexible and UV blocking.  Typically used on stucco and brick.

Turns out my new/old recut sail is actually in relatively decent shape - recently got it back from sailmaker after a meager  three hundred+ dollar recut and leech reinforcement, and have bent it on and tested it on my rebuilt furler.  It’s not perfect, but it’s a first-time furling jib and seems worth putting temporary UV protection of some sort on the leech - paint.

When I get a new sail made, I can totally see the value of having a UV cover sewn on the leech, and also hoisting a UV cover “jib sock” over it.  Call me cheap (some bastard here will :) and I’ll tear you apart to prove it :)), but, personally, I’d prefer to protect the $2-3K investment in a new sail and keep it in good shape as long as reasonably possible.

 
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Boink

Super Anarchist
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779
@Jud - s/v Sputnik

I have held my tongue while yours has flailed wildly.

You whinged like a thin skinned little pussy when called out. You bit so hard at the suggestion of your cheapskate tendancies, and how that can put others in harm's way because of your poor choices. History demonstrates how people that overreact are usually compensating for the exact behaviour that they are being questioned on. And you fit this to a T.

It was your responses that were filled with foul language, hatred and hypocrisy. Your portrayal of what went down here is so stupifying. Clearly you are not seeking therapy with all the dollars saved, and/or you are mixing your meds with alcohol....... I was content to leave alone. But You could not help yourself, instead to taunt, make threats and reignite all this.

That's wilful, boneheaded and ignorant. But again that all fits the pattern you transparently and repeatedly demonstrate.

I had considered, but not declared, (until just above) for you to be a thin skinned pussy from early in this exchange because of your over reaction. It's a sort' polite and benevolent version of what is meant. However you have proved worthy of the full upgrade - I do declare You to be an Utter (Cheapskate) Cunt. I really hope you get the Fucking from Life, you so clearly deserve.

 

Jud - s/v Sputnik

Super Anarchist
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Canada
Pity you didn't keep doing so but never mind - you've now made it onto my ignore list.

FKT
Ah, he came back, uninvited, out from under the dark, slimy rock he was lurking under.  A most curious wretch.  And I’m now being accused of “putting others in harm’s way”!!  Love it.    (A variation of the whole “beware the lee shore!” thing the dude was crying on about earlier.)  Let me address these very serious accusations and hopefully shut the fucker’s mouth up.

The title of this thread is “crazy jib furling cover idea - work with me here.”  I had thought those signal phrases (“crazy...idea”, and “work with me here”) would cue unwary yet alert readers not to get to attached to the outlandish ideas discussed herein.  Along the lines of, “Warning reader!  Unorthodox topics will be discussed; they may sound ‘crazy’ but, hey, let’s see where this conversation leads.”

Well, they apparently lead to me washing up on a lee shore and —horrors of horrors— encouraging others to engage in risky behaviour and endanger themselves.  Yes, it has come to this, dear reader. Reckless endangerment of others via the Cruising Anarchy forum.

I have now been accused, through this wicked Cruising Anarchy thread, of “putting others in harm’s way”.  (Imagine all the other threads here to which you or your friends have been party —suggestions on GPS charting systems; rigging upgrades; hatch re-bedding; hard vs. inflatable dinghies; and on and on and on and on —unbeknownst to you, you very likely have been “putting others in harm’s way” through your thoughts posted here, according to my pouting accuser.)

So, in order that I not be wrongfully accused of courting my own death on lee shores (the first charge made of me) and, now, ”putting others in harm’s way,” propelled there with a faulty jib that my words unduly influenced them to acquire and use, I hereby offer the following very serious legal disclaimer.  (It is also my hope that this personal and very serious legally-binding disclaimer will finally shut this fucking asshole @Boink up  —though he is good fun to laugh at.)

Let it be known:

1) I take full responsibility for my painted jib inevitably piling me up on a vicious and rocky lee shore, in the dead of winter, hemmed in by icebergs with no possibility of survival;

2) I disclaim any responsibility for “putting others in harm’s way” by suggesting they paint (smiley faces or whatever) on old bedsheet sails and hoist them for use on their cheap, decrepit, un-maintained and generally dodgy vessels, sailing incautiously to and fro in front of aforementioned vicious lee shores or anywhere else.

3) I direct the august reader of this thread looking for practical advice on sails to only ever sail with brand new sails every time you go out; and,

4) Finally, I hereby inform patient readers of this delightful thread that a full report on the effectiveness of UV paint on jibs (sample size = 1), and perhaps on older Sunbrella (apparently it has temporary restorative properties for tropical sun-worn biminis/dodgers), with gory detailed pictures, will be posted here in the future.  Boink, please be forewarned to cover your eyes from the scary pictures lest they give you frightful nightmares or otherwise disturb you.  (You seem easily triggered, so I’m giving you plenty of advance warning to avert your eyes from said pictures.)

5) Do not try this at home.  Ever.  Doing so will likely result in a gruesome death on a lee shore for you or a loved one.  Practice social distancing.  Do not misconstrue any words of mine in this thread as an endorsement to paint a smiley face or anything else on your jib and put yourself or anyone else “in harm’s way”.  You or someone else will likely die as a result of this dangerous activity.

 
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thinwater

Super Anarchist
1,097
163
Deale, MD
beast.jpg


What do you have to lose?
Why is it so hard for people (not you specifically--I liked the photo) to get your head around paint? This stuff makes it around the world (and yes, this is one of the paint types I tested).

Not house paint. It will peal within 6-12 months, perhaps less, depending on the brand and the sail cloth type. I tried several top brands. If you want to know the exact paints, you'll have to subscribe, or the publisher will club me.

It's been 2 years now, without a single chip or worn spot (jib on furler, stays up year-round), and I like tacking a lot. It is a polyester/laminate sail. Practical Sailor, "The Case for The Painted Jib."

I would still go for Sunbrella for a new heavy duty genoa, but for aging or very lightweight sails, It seem easy, cheap, and effective. I'm probably going to order my next jib sans cover and paint it. But not with house paint. And not white; even white Sunbrella lets UV through, and the UV penetration increases chipping as well as sail breakdown. Most of the sail loft attempts at UV paint used white, which was not well conceived.  Paint is a normal thing on cloth-cover planes, but the FAA has a UV-blocking requirement that includes an opaque underlayer.

[I haven't piled up on a lee shore yet. Could happen.]

 
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Phtt

New member
The Practical Sailor article was authored by Drew Fry. He’s not a wanker. Elastomeric inflatable dinghy paint performed best. Looks agricultural but i respect cheap and functional. Run with it.  

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,981
3,910
Tasmania, Australia
I have now been accused, through this wicked Cruising Anarchy thread, of “putting others in harm’s way”.  (Imagine all the other threads here to which you or your friends have been party —suggestions on GPS charting systems; rigging upgrades; hatch re-bedding; hard vs. inflatable dinghies; and on and on and on and on —unbeknownst to you, you very likely have been “putting others in harm’s way” through your thoughts posted here, according to my pouting accuser.)
Yeah well - I have *2* offset companionways, a second-hand jib on a home-built furler and flat junk sails. I'm a major danger to myself and every other boat on the water every time I drop the mooring pennant.

Oh well. Somehow we manage.

FKT

 
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