Cruising boats that plane

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
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This might be controversial, how about the Beneteau First 30 by Juan Kouymowhatshisname?



Very cruiseable interior, and from Youtube-videos appear to plane.
I was impressed to see Beneteau build that boat, because it looked like a significant attempt to update their design approach. I was surprised by how rapidly they dropped it.

Does anyone know what happened?  Was it a flawed boat?  Or just orphaned by a change of marketing direction?

 

maxstaylock

Anarchist
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Like a Pogo, it didn't work under any handicap rule, so the racers dropped them like a brick.

Unlike a Pogo, it is too heavy to really make use of the hull.  Looks like it would be a hoot in a gale, and a nice enough weekender for a couple.  For mixed cruising and occasional racing, I think I would prefer a 31.7, smaller loads, nicer feel, more nimble, Finot.

 

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
This might be controversial, how about the Beneteau First 30 by Juan Kouymowhatshisname?



Very cruiseable interior, and from Youtube-videos appear to plane.
Well, ask @Blur about that, he did a test sail in lighter conditions. I doubt it and what I've read in a German report, this one loves to throw in a broach here and there, so you never know when the fun stops...

 

Alberta

Member
The cruising 30ftrs often technically plane, but not until >20kts of wind which makes that attribute a bit less useful than similar length racers that are light enough to get up in 12-15kts.

The only time you'll see a First 30 planning in moderate conditions is if you find the one with no interior.

 

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
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Yep, our cruiser racer version would need 14.somethings kn to plane. 

It was always interesting how crew weight would make a difference, even with a fat arse.

You'd watch the wind peg over 14 and be right on the verge of popping out, but nooot quite there. The transom would be chattering and planted. Then a body would move up onto the rail and all of a sudden the wake goes quiet and it's aaaaah.........

 

TwoLegged

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Well, ask @Blur about that, he did a test sail in lighter conditions. I doubt it and what I've read in a German report, this one loves to throw in a broach here and there, so you never know when the fun stops...
Thanks, Matagi.  I found this report http://no-frills-sailing.com/sailing-a-beneteau-first-30-real-life-test-review/ by a German dealer's employee, who is very diplomatic but seems to be saying that the boat can't point and has undersized rudders.

And yes, I can't imagine Beneteau building a cruising boat light enough to plane in less than a gale.

 

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
Thanks, Matagi.  I found this report http://no-frills-sailing.com/sailing-a-beneteau-first-30-real-life-test-review/ by a German dealer's employee, who is very diplomatic but seems to be saying that the boat can't point and has undersized rudders.

And yes, I can't imagine Beneteau building a cruising boat light enough to plane in less than a gale.
To be fair, that is quite a positive review of the Juan K First 30. 

My conclusion from the article:

Given the price you get these today, it is probably a good deal for a fast 30 footer, but don't expect Pogo-like performance. It won't plane.

 

Misbehavin'

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Well, ask @Blur about that, he did a test sail in lighter conditions. I doubt it and what I've read in a German report, this one loves to throw in a broach here and there, so you never know when the fun stops...
I just had a re-read of Peters write up on his blog about the test sail of the First 30, which I first read a couple of years ago. The test was done in about 8-10 knots of wind, so obviously didn't mention anything about broaches. It's available here in swedish: https://www.blur.se/2010/10/04/first-30-provsegling/

Thanks, Matagi.  I found this report http://no-frills-sailing.com/sailing-a-beneteau-first-30-real-life-test-review/ by a German dealer's employee, who is very diplomatic but seems to be saying that the boat can't point and has undersized rudders.

And yes, I can't imagine Beneteau building a cruising boat light enough to plane in less than a gale.
Well, with all due respect, I would take the author of that blogs opinion with a pinch of salt. Some good articles on there mind you, but he isn't exactly an authority on sailing, especially compared to someone like Peter/Blur.

I must admit that the rudder solution on the First 30 baffles me though.

 

Blur

Super Anarchist
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Well, ask @Blur about that, he did a test sail in lighter conditions. I doubt it and what I've read in a German report, this one loves to throw in a broach here and there, so you never know when the fun stops...
I think it will be a handfull to sail fast when the wind is up  :ph34r:  

Personally I see a big difference between boats that "plane efortless" when the wind passes 16 or 18 knots, and boat that you can wrestle into a plane in 26 knots...

 

MFH125

Member
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166
Personally I see a big difference between boats that "plane efortless" when the wind passes 16 or 18 knots, and boat that you can wrestle into a plane in 26 knots...
Amen.

The boat seems a bit of an odd duck.  I'd be curious to know what Beneteau thought the target market was.

 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
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To be fair, that is quite a positive review of the Juan K First 30. 

My conclusion from the article:

Given the price you get these today, it is probably a good deal for a fast 30 footer, but don't expect Pogo-like performance. It won't plane.
I think we're gong to disagree on that, @Matagi.    That reviewer tries to be relentlessly positive about everything, so the quibbles in that article seem to me to be that reviewer's diplomatic way of saying "I wanted to love it, but I couldn't.  I hated its weird helm, inability to point, and general slowness."

 

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
I think we're gong to disagree on that, @Matagi.    That reviewer tries to be relentlessly positive about everything, so the quibbles in that article seem to me to be that reviewer's diplomatic way of saying "I wanted to love it, but I couldn't.  I hated its weird helm, inability to point, and general slowness."
Don't worry, I will not loose sleep over this design ;)

Nor any other Juan K. design.

I think what Peter said says it all, he is surely one of the most experienced jockeys around here.

 

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh


Carbon 40

image.png

Neo 400

Two viable contenders

 I know which I would pick.

 
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pschwenn

New member
Here is a fairly early planing cruising boat, Capricia II.  A one-off cruising variation, LOA 35', of the Uffa Fox's Flying 25.  Built cold-molded mahogany/resorcinol 1/2" in 5 layers, in 1968, moored off Dinard until about 1989, then in the Chesapeake Bay with a taller rig for the light air  She cruised the North Sea, Irish Sea, the Atlantic off Ouessant, Bay of Biscay, and the first owner had his honeymoon moored off Lisbon.

Sitting room height but comfy cabin for (not too arthritic) four with a galley and head.  A delight in light air.  A simple bulbed iron keel shaped to avoid standing upright as the Channel tides fell.  On steel frame - at the chainplates.  Hullform - like the Flying 15 but beamier; no flats or chines, flat-ish aft at 20 deg heel.  DWL 25' hence the name; one person in cockpit -> LWL 30'.

Very stable and smooth when planing, easy to get up, and speeds to about 17 knots.  (Have read otherwise somewhere on CruisingAnarchy), heavy and modest sized sloop rig.  Handled easily enough to solo with spin, perhaps with a hint of anxiety.

regards.

ShrunkIcon.jpg

View attachment 485977

 
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eliboat

Super Anarchist
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Here is a fairly early planing cruising boat, Capricia II.  A one-off cruising variation, LOA 35', of the Uffa Fox's Flying 25.  Built cold-molded mahogany/resorcinol 1/2" in 5 layers, in 1968, moored off Dinard until about 1989, then in the Chesapeake Bay with a taller rig for the light air  She cruised the North Sea, Irish Sea, the Atlantic off Ouessant, Bay of Biscay, and the first owner had his honeymoon moored off Lisbon.

Sitting room height but comfy cabin for (not too arthritic) four with a galley and head.  A delight in light air.  A simple bulbed iron keel shaped to avoid standing upright as the Channel tides fell.  On steel frame - at the chainplates.  Hullform - like the Flying 15 but beamier; no flats or chines, flat-ish aft at 20 deg heel.  DWL 25' hence the name; one person in cockpit -> LWL 30'.

Very stable and smooth when planing, easy to get up, and speeds to about 17 knots.  (Have read otherwise somewhere on CruisingAnarchy), heavy and modest sized sloop rig.  Handled easily enough to solo with spin, perhaps with a hint of anxiety.

regards.

View attachment 493649

View attachment 485977
Very cool.  I would love to sail that boat. I’m not taken with her cabin house, but I could live with it given the hull underneath. 

 

floater

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for those that aren't yet aware - Beneteau looks to have entered the planing cruising boat category with the new First 36. brought to you by the same yard as the boat in this threads opening post. idk yet what breeze is needed to break it free - but - reportedly - has hit 18 in 20 knots or so..

Sailing World released a render today then I found this...

https://www.sail-world.com/news/240349/Introducing-the-Beneteau-First-36

Looks like a nice modern update.  Hopefully they sell a ton.
In happier news here’s the new one (not my photos)  View attachment 491154 View attachment 491155

 

pschwenn

New member
Very cool.  I would love to sail that boat. I’m not taken with her cabin house, but I could live with it given the hull underneath. 
There are very few left (none with cabins).  If I were a better carpenter and had the "conservator" gene, mine would have lasted more than 35 years.  If you visit Australia you might try the one shown ("old" looks better to me, and drier), or the more common Flying 15. ULflying25.jpg

 




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