Cuba, protests..

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
7,033
1,947
Wet coast.
Drop the embargo.  Then the regime will no longer have it as a pincushion for what's going wrong.  It becomes wonderful there?  Fine.  It stays as bad, or gets worse?  Not fine, but at least everyone's cards are on the table. 

And stop repatriating those who built boats out of scrap, and against the odds, actually made it to coastal Florida waters.  We could use that type of resourcefulness, and guts, in our society.
Might as well.  It is unlikely that Florida will ever vote Democrat, so a Democratic majority government is the one to do it. 

Once Cuba becomes a tourist destination for US citizens, they'll never want the government to put the sanctions back in.  

On the repatriation issue, shouldn't the same logic apply to those who made it to the US/Mexico border from other countries in Central America, travelling mostly with no money or resources to fall back on?  

 

AJ Oliver

Super Anarchist
12,894
1,804
Sandusky Sailing Club
Blinken ". . .we call on the freedom-loving nations of the world to support the Cuban people’s desire for human rights and democracy." 

It would be nice if they supported it in the US too . .

Is Blinken as bad as Pompeo ??  

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
93,207
10,925
Earth
bstrdsonofbtl said:
Yeah? How's about you yankes jail all your protestors. Think you got enough prisons to hold them? lol....
How’s about you make an argument without bullshit fallacies? You might find more people to be sympathetic to the argument.  

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
61,544
1,710
Punta Gorda FL
And stop repatriating those who built boats out of scrap, and against the odds, actually made it to coastal Florida waters.  We could use that type of resourcefulness, and guts, in our society.
...

On the repatriation issue, shouldn't the same logic apply to those who made it to the US/Mexico border from other countries in Central America, travelling mostly with no money or resources to fall back on? 
If they demonstrate an ability to build and operate boats, absolutely!

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
93,207
10,925
Earth
bstrdsonofbtl said:
You don’t need to convince me. I am sympathetic to your position. I’ve spent a lot of time in Cuba and seen it first hand. I can tell you that reality is somewhere between the two positions, as usual. The Cuban government did (and does) send their thugs out to “counter protest” and stop the actual protest. They are locking people up for protesting. They fuck with protesters in other ways if they don’t lock them up. The way to stop that is to engage with Cuba. The embargo does not stop this behavior. We don’t have the embargo because of rights, we have it to pander to Cuban Americans who preferred the prior dictator and want their families’ land back.
 

What I am trying to get across to you is that you would do much better at swaying the opinions of those who do not already agree with you if you didn’t rely on logical fallacies to make your point. Doing that makes you no better than Trump’s legions of bullshitters. Don’t stoop to that level. And don’t accuse me of relying on alternative facts if you can’t identify them for me to admit or rebut. 

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
93,207
10,925
Earth
Why do we repatriate Cubans who attempt the crossing to Florida in makeshift rafts if we base our policy on their government’s rights violations? Those people deserve our protection.

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
61,544
1,710
Punta Gorda FL
Why do we repatriate Cubans who attempt the crossing to Florida in makeshift rafts if we base our policy on their government’s rights violations? Those people deserve our protection.
I think the idea is that accepting them will result in more trying the Gulf Stream in increasingly inappropriate craft and dying in the attempt. So we're protecting them from themselves. And preventing another Mariel surge. Also, those Human Rights Watch people quoted above are just whiny snowflakes and the Cuban government is benign and provides great health care, so those people hardly need protection, except maybe against US imperialists.

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
61,544
1,710
Punta Gorda FL
bstrdsonofbtl said:
What an attitude. Your country is the one making them miserable. You should except all of them. Feed, cloth and house them. Preferably in your back yard ET.
Explaining our policy isn't advocating it. I'm an immigration proponent, though not the kind that thinks they should come here to be dependent. I'd rather they be independent. And own their own land.

I don't think our country is fully responsible for what the Cuban government is doing:


 



Cuba: Peaceful Protesters Systematically Detained, Abused

I think the government doing the abusing has some responsibility.

 

Laker

Super Anarchist
4,178
269
PNW
quod umbra said:
LIBERTAD!

Well in the event you do not understand the embargo.....
you do not allow those hostile to The United States, by agreeing to install nuclear missiles aimed at America, without ramifications.

The order of operation is important. 
Step 1. overthrow your arcane communist authoritarian regime.
Step2. have sanctions eased as you adopt a democratically elected government.
Can we agree that:

The government that was overthrown in Cuba was corrupt and that the major US influence in that government was through organized crime

That the original embargo, especially on sugar, its main export, just played Cuba into the hands of Russia, who readily traded in their sugar. Cuba was then brought into the Russian sphere of influence.

That those were Russian missiles.  Not Cuban. They were there in response to the US installing tactical missiles in Turkey. The missiles in Turkey disappeared after the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Seems a bit tit-for-tat to me.

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
61,544
1,710
Punta Gorda FL
Florida Lieutenant Governor Calls for Busing Cuban Migrants to Delaware, Then Tries To Walk it Back

Florida Lt. Gov. Jeanette Nuñez has come under fire for her comments that many interpreted as support of busing Cuban migrants to Delaware.

Nuñez, herself the daughter of Cubans who settled in Miami, made the controversial remarks last week in an interview with Actualidad 1040 AM, a Spanish-language radio station popular with many Cubans living in South Florida. "The governor isn't going to stand there with his arms crossed. He's thinking what he's going to do. He's going to send them, frankly to the state of Delaware, the president's state," Nuñez said on the Cada Tarde show.

The comments come as Florida has dealt with a record-breaking influx of Cuban migrants in the last year. Data from Customs and Border Protection and other federal law enforcement agencies have confirmed that almost 180,000 Cuban migrants have arrived in the United States since 2021, more than arrived in the Mariel boatlift and the 1994 Balsero crisis combined. These migrants are fleeing Cuba as the communist island struggles with blackouts, shortages, and other economic setbacks worsened by the COVID-19 pandemic.

This migration has coincided with another large influx of migrants at the U.S.-Mexico border that has strained the federal government's resources. However, rather than lobbying for reforms to U.S. immigration laws and the immigration system as a whole, anti-immigration politicians have responded to the crisis by busing migrants to New York City and Washington, D.C. These efforts, while flashy, have been costly. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott's efforts have cost taxpayers $1,400 per migrant while doing little to deter arrivals. Back in April, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis pledged he would also bus migrants outside of his state to Delaware.

Democrats in the state wasted no time in criticizing DeSantis and Nuñez. "This should shake every freedom-loving Floridian who may not look like, speak like, or vote like Governor DeSantis," Rep. Charlie Crist (D–Fla.)—the Democratic nominee running against DeSantis for governor this year—said in a statement to Florida Politics. "If he is willing to play with the safety and well-being of refugees from a communist dictatorship just to play political games to win the White House in 2024, he has disqualified himself from public office."
...
So that's nice.
 
Top