Curious Double Fatality at Sea

[Reference]

Seems odd that it wouldn't be possible to get the boom under control by bearing off to a broad reach. Accidental gybe followed by a second one?

Not if the driver had just been hit by the boom or block.

 

[ryley]

Yeah, my first thought was rigging mishap.

my first thought is foul play. the husband and wife have 24,000 miles of experience on this boat and let a loose boom do both of them in? Sketchy.

 

[Lex Teredo]

Not limited to large rigs. A J/35 boom can kill you just as dead as the boom on a 65-foot boat.

True, but conditions need to be a lot more extreme

I don't know about that, alpha. We have had a couple gybes going downwind in 20-25kts in our J/35 where the boom crossed the cockpit so damn fast in veering wind conditions that I swore I heard it whistling War Pigs as it shot by. I have been lightly brushed by it in moderate weather in the past and that hurt like hell, while the triple block on the mainsheet caught the trimmer in the face, put him on his ass and nearly knocked him out on a routine gybe in about 15 kts last summer. A shot to the side of the head with the boom coming across the cockpit in anything over 10-12 knots would probably be a knockout blow and maybe a skull fracture. I'm not afraid of the boat but I respect the loaded parts.

 

[sledracr]

my first thought is foul play. the husband and wife have 24,000 miles of experience on this boat and let a loose boom do both of them in? Sketchy.

that was my thought, too.

 

[BrickTopHarry]

Sad story. Am I the only one that is considering foul play? Odds that it was two people killed by some mysterious malfunction seem like the less likely scenario.

I hope it’s at least being considered and ruled out by authorities after investigation, including autopsy on the deceased couple.

Have the passenger couple been named or have any news interviews?

 

[rmgeis]

Sad story. Am I the only one that is considering foul play? Odds that it was two people killed by some mysterious malfunction seem like the less likely scenario.

What's the motive? They didn't get the boat. If the owners were complete jerks, they were only days from getting off. On another thought, will the Coast Guard come and get you if you are on a boat owned by such jerks? 'Course we are only speculating. I really liked the quote "When there's a casualty at sea, there are many wise men on shore"

 

[trout]

This scuttlebutt post suggests that they lost the mainsheet & that the boom is what caused the injuries. I'm not sure where they got those details.

The post also puts them south of Bermuda, while the CBC article has them three days toward Nova Scotia, so a grain of salt may be warranted...

 

[ProaSailor]

Sad story. Am I the only one that is considering foul play?

No. RTFT.

Sad story. Am I the only one that is considering foul play? Odds that it was two people killed by some mysterious malfunction seem like the less likely scenario.

my first thought is foul play. the husband and wife have 24,000 miles of experience on this boat and let a loose boom do both of them in? Sketchy.

 

[SV Tom Crean]

So I knew both the owners - lovely couple and lots of experience. They have been sailing the boat shorthanded since 2019 in lots of conditions. Just so sad they are gone when doing something they really loved.

Regards the boom on the 66 - it’s big, really big. It has inboom furling but you need to do this from the mast - I had a discussion with them about changing It to allow reefing from the cockpit. The pic attached is from the 66 brochure but shows the size of the boom. It doesn’t have a topping lift but relies on the boom vang to support it.

 

[Panoramix]

Wasn't there an incident a couple of years ago where a large sailing yacht lost its mainsheet and the boom ended up killing two crew before they managed to get it under control?

Seeing the boom resting on the dodger might indicate something similar here....

Lots of people are now sailing around on big boats with electric and/or hydraulic winches etc., making them easy to handle short handed. But people tend to overlook that when the technology fails, these large rigs carry considerable, even lethal forces that are not easily dealt with with a small crew.

I am like you, I don't understand why couples sail such big boats. It might be generally OK with hydraulics but whenever something doesn't work as planned big boats are really hard on the crew.... plus the maintenance to stay on top. Seems to much like work for me!

 

[NZK]

Kof - sorry for your loss, this is a terrible outcome whatever the events behind it may be.

Regarding that furling boom - is it a line driven mandrel down to one of this mast base winches or just buttons at the gooseneck?? It seems like a very archaic set-up for that boat to have to go forward to furl...

For both of them to have been lost in the same incident, especially given the state of the boat in the recovery photos and that both bodies remained onboard (rather than one or more being lost overboard), does seem to be pushing the limits of probability....

Seems to much like work for me!

Typically owners of boats like this one have the budget for full time or temporary crew. 'Guardianage' services are also very common - typically ex professional yacht crew who have gone land-based and offer maintenance, basic/mid level engineering and then cleaning services. Get someone else ot do all the work for you...

For when things go wrong - just because it's a bigger boat doesn't necessarily make it more or less likely to cause harm, that's down to the experience of the crew. I was onboard a 125ft sloop that lost 2/3 of the boom and the entire mainsail (from full hoist) - we dealt with that situation without anything other than a few bumps and bruises with pretty much just 3-4 people (there were more crew but the skipper made the call as to who could safely offer assistance and who couldn't...).
NB - this above paragraph isn't intended to cast any dispersions on the couple in the article but to highlight that without enough information it's incorrect to make assumptions...

 

[SV Tom Crean]

Kof - sorry for your loss, this is a terrible outcome whatever the events behind it may be.

Regarding that furling boom - is it a line driven mandrel down to one of this mast base winches or just buttons at the gooseneck?? It seems like a very archaic set-up for that boat to have to go forward to furl...

For both of them to have been lost in the same incident, especially given the state of the boat in the recovery photos and that both bodies remained onboard (rather than one or more being lost overboard), does seem to be pushing the limits of probability....


Typically owners of boats like this one have the budget for full time or temporary crew. 'Guardianage' services are also very common - typically ex professional yacht crew who have gone land-based and offer maintenance, basic/mid level engineering and then cleaning services. Get someone else ot do all the work for you...

For when things go wrong - just because it's a bigger boat doesn't necessarily make it more or less likely to cause harm, that's down to the experience of the crew. I was onboard a 125ft sloop that lost 2/3 of the boom and the entire mainsail (from full hoist) - we dealt with that situation without anything other than a few bumps and bruises with pretty much just 3-4 people (there were more crew but the skipper made the call as to who could safely offer assistance and who couldn't...).
NB - this above paragraph isn't intended to cast any dispersions on the couple in the article but to highlight that without enough information it's incorrect to make assumptions...

Thanks.

It's a button control on the mast below the gooseneck or at least was back in 2019. Don't think it was ever changed. Meant you had to push the button and control the winch while holding on. It's one thing I did not like and hence the discussion with Anne-Marie and Volker. Not saying that was/is the cause but just one thing I didn't like. It's ok in calm seas but I'd prefer it back in the cockpit when the stress levels go up.

I think all we can ever do is learn from crap like this and try and make sure it doesn't happen to us. Just sad to lose two lovely people and thinking of their families.

 

[Panoramix]

For when things go wrong - just because it's a bigger boat doesn't necessarily make it more or less likely to cause harm, that's down to the experience of the crew. I was onboard a 125ft sloop that lost 2/3 of the boom and the entire mainsail (from full hoist) - we dealt with that situation without anything other than a few bumps and bruises with pretty much just 3-4 people (there were more crew but the skipper made the call as to who could safely offer assistance and who couldn't...).
NB - this above paragraph isn't intended to cast any dispersions on the couple in the article but to highlight that without enough information it's incorrect to make assumptions...

You can obviously hurt yourself on a smaller boat but forces measured in hundreds of kilograms are less likely to hurt you badly than forces measured in tons. A bruise in the first case can easily be a broken limb in the second one. Breaking a boom in breezy conditions on a smaller boat is a serious issue, nevertheless the average couple is more likely to tame it on a 35 footer than on a 70 footer even if care and skill is needed in both cases. On the big boat on top of skill, you might well need raw strength to move around a broken bit of your boom!

 

[TPG]

I am like you, I don't understand why couples sail such big boats. It might be generally OK with hydraulics but whenever something doesn't work as planned big boats are really hard on the crew.... plus the maintenance to stay on top. Seems to much like work for me!

Do some passage making on a small boat then on a big boat and you'll understand why.

 

[IPLore]

Well Scuttlebutt has a more specific description than we had otherwise. Something in mainsheet attachments or blocks, or possibly the mainsheet itself parted? Or a traveller tore out or failed, Looks like a solid vang, so the boom is going to swing wildly in high seas if no effective sheet anymore, and nothing else aft of the shrouds to stop it.

Easy to be a smart guy at a desk ("When there's a casualty at sea, there are many wise men on shore") ...

I'd like to see what the Coast Guard rescue crew saw about the rig, since they spray-painted the topsides for I.D.,they likely boarded.

Sorry about the whole thing, hope the two survivors aren't blaming themselves if it couldn't have been helped.

I imagine the USCG are going to conduct a careful investigation. There is enough here for their antennae/sniff test to start pinging. The coroner's report will be step #1.

 

[IPLore]

I imagine the USCG are going to conduct a careful investigation. There is enough here for their antennae/sniff test to start pinging. The coroner's report will be step #1.

The description from the survivors is that there were two separate and sequential incidents. Incident #1....the wife gets fatally injured. Incident #2......while trying to assist the wife, the husband is fatally injured. 100,000+ sea miles of double handed experience. How to respond to an injury is something they would have discussed. Same with MOB or rigging failure. Double handed sailors rehearse and discuss these scenarios.

 

[Matagi]

Sad story. Am I the only one that is considering foul play? Odds that it was two people killed by some mysterious malfunction seem like the less likely scenario.

Wait what? Killing two people offshore and then keeping them aboard? Genius.

Why not just keep it to yourself? It's a very tragic story in itself and speculations don't help. In this case there are two -now- witnesses and the whole scene is available for inspection.

The truth will come out in the end.

 

[Matagi]

True, but conditions need to be a lot more extreme

No.

 

[drude]

Am I being thick? Is there just one block on the end of that boom giving only 2:1 mainsheet purchase?

 

[robalex117]

Am I being thick? Is there just one block on the end of that boom giving only 2:1 mainsheet purchase?

Very common on big boats. The sheet goes to a winch.