Curious Double Fatality at Sea

nolatom

Super Anarchist
3,611
640
New Orleans
Head up, or bear off?? You can’t do both at once, so pick one. Time slows down, what seems like a minute is actually ten seconds.
How much time have we each taken to suss out the error chain and tell about it? Way way WAY more time than they had, plus our world is calm, level and quiet, theirs chaotic and ear-splitting noisy, adrenaline maxed, racing thoughts.

Not that we shouldn’t walk through that error chain, it’s meaningful and may help someone some time. I hope it’s not me or you in that spot.
 
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kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,205
5,127
Kent Island!
The main sheet can be a deadly hazard, as much as the boom. We had one guy who we KEPT warning not to stand in the path of it keep doing it anyway and get launched head first. He didn't die but at first we thought we killed him, he was out cold and bloody. That was the end of that race, we got him off to a hospital ASAP.

To the larger issue, big boat big sails high loads low crew count means the gear HAS to work and you HAVE TO not screw it up. That is a lot for a cruising boat with various crew in and out. You ever get that creeping feeling you have a tiger by the tail? Sure I can handle the chute, the wind is hardly blowing, but now it is blowing and increasing by the minute, the autopilot is running out of brain power, the sheets are bar tight, and we're blasting into a high traffic area :eek:
 
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MauiPunter

Will sail for food
Curious as to causes of death as it should be hard to go from alert and oriented, open fracture below knee with tourniquet applied.... to dead.
I wondered the same thing. My uneducated guess was that her head injury had internal bleeding and brain swelling and eventually she succumbed. Head injuries need immediate care or you won't survive. If she had been on land, she would have been alive after a head injury like that with an EMT on site.

He most likely bled out.
 

Clove Hitch

Halyard licker
10,330
1,582
around and about
I wondered the same thing. My uneducated guess was that her head injury had internal bleeding and brain swelling and eventually she succumbed. Head injuries need immediate care or you won't survive. If she had been on land, she would have been alive after a head injury like that with an EMT on site.

He most likely bled out.
Ya, she could have had a subararachnid bleed or something. Also something called neurogenic shock if she had a spinal injury.

I've seen people lose a lot of blood and be ok (e.g. dude on heparin drip ripped out his Foley and I found him in bed with pool of blood damn near up to knees) .

The two crew seemed to be doing the right thing and if they got bandages and a tourniquet on him........

Just don't have enough details.

I carry quick Quickclot on my boat!
 
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tane

Anarchist
903
240
I wonder if it is not a fallacy, promoted by the "leisure marine industry", that given the "right" equipment" a man & wife crew can handle ANY size of boat...
 

MauiPunter

Will sail for food
Ya, she could have had a subararachnid bleed or something. Also something called neurogenic shock if she had a spinal injury.

I've seen people lose a lot of blood and be ok (e.g. dude on heparin drip ripped out his Foley and I found him in bed with pool of blood damn near up to knees) .

The two crew seemed to be doing the right thing and if they got bandages and a tourniquet on him........

Just don't have enough details.

I carry quick Quickclot on my boat!

My next guess is a coronary event given his age, the stress levels and loss of blood.
 
I wonder if the large size of the boat gives a false sense of security regarding the conditions. On the night in question, at 30kts and 6+m seas, in the dark, with conditions not matching the forecast, in a 36' boat I think most would downshift to heavily reefed main and tiny headsail if any, see what daylight brings. The big boat might lull one into going "over the falls" so to speak, where suddenly it's too late and you have huge sails and loads to deal with and no full racing crew to call up on deck.
 

Student_Driver

Super Anarchist
1,764
155
Darien
I hate when the main sheet is ahead of the helm(s). Don’t understand the supposed safety advantage of mid boom sheeting. When the boom gets out of control centifical force will send flying bits backwards towards the helms and trimmer Ugh.

Additionally, don’t understand why the main furling has to be done from the mast. IMHO that’s a huge risk for a cruising boat boat with no professionals onboard.
 

floater

Super Duper Anarchist
4,933
795
quivira regnum
only professionals should be allowed near the mast? idk. my unpopular opinion is that reefing from the mast is probably safe.

the mainsheet killed them. not the reefing system. and they didn't fall overboard or anything else.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,205
5,127
Kent Island!
I wonder if it is not a fallacy, promoted by the "leisure marine industry", that given the "right" equipment" a man & wife crew can handle ANY size of boat...
They can actually. I know someone who singlehanded a 90 foot sloop.
The problem is you are screwed if the labor-saving devices don't work or you get them into a condition where they can't work :eek:
For one very simple example, I was one of two on a smallish coastal freighter once. Dropping the anchor was easy. Getting it back up would have been impossible if the windlass broke. Two people weren't going to pull it up even one foot. Once you HAVE to have the gear it damn well has to work 100% of the time.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,205
5,127
Kent Island!
I hate when the main sheet is ahead of the helm(s). Don’t understand the supposed safety advantage of mid boom sheeting. When the boom gets out of control centifical force will send flying bits backwards towards the helms and trimmer Ugh.

Additionally, don’t understand why the main furling has to be done from the mast. IMHO that’s a huge risk for a cruising boat boat with no professionals onboard.
My mainsheet is at the end of the boom, which is right ahead of the wheel. Where should it be?
 

10thTonner

Hazard to Navigation
1,623
582
South of Spandau
You ever get that creeping feeling you have a tiger by the tail? Sure I can handle the chute, the wind is hardly blowing, but now it is blowing and increasing by the minute, the autopilot is running out of brain power, the sheets are bar tight, and we're blasting into a high traffic area :eek:

One very wise Anarchist (I forgot who) once spoke:

"They're all quick release - with a knife!"
 

MauiPunter

Will sail for food
Are you guys saying that a mid-boom, german sheeting option would be safer given these circumstances?

The CNB had this. Thats a lot of strain on two single spots.
1658783362165.png



I wonder where the failure was exactly.
 
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Tylo

Member
195
111
Sweden
Additionally, don’t understand why the main furling has to be done from the mast. IMHO that’s a huge risk for a cruising boat boat with no professionals onboard.
They all seem to have these park avenue booms that are as wide as my entire boat, so I don't think you can see the mandrel/the sail furling from the helm. I think you have to be at the mast, next to it, to ensure it furls properly.
1658783755666.png
 

accnick

Super Anarchist
3,175
2,193
Are you guys saying that a mid-boom, german sheeting option would be safer given these circumstances?

The CNB had this. Thats a lot of strain on two single spots.
View attachment 530457


I wonder where the failure was exactly.
Three spots, really, when you add in the winch. The mainsheet winch on Isobel (about 75’ “modern classic”) apparently pulled out of the deck last year. Dismasted and written off earlier this year.

Not sure how similar it was to this arrangement, but it is not unusual on big modern boats. Much faster to trim with modern high-speed power winches than multiple purchases on a winch. A lot less string to pull in.
 

solosailor

Super Anarchist
4,061
815
San Francisco Bay
I wonder if it is not a fallacy, promoted by the "leisure marine industry", that given the "right" equipment" a man & wife crew can handle ANY size of boat...
Power winches are great at not giving you the strength to handle your sails without them. I look forward to being old and rich enough to need them.
 

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