Curious - How Old Is Everybody?

[tp#12]

That must be rare to get in that young. The youngest they're allowed in the US is 17, with a parents OK and signature.

Australia Army - age and gender

It was only for the Apprentice scheme given we were in training so long we became adults before we were sent out to other units. It had problems. There's quite a few psych claims from bastardisation, sexual assault and so on .. putting kids in men's clothes and telling them they're the best of the best leads to some issues. Not to mention the regular 15k forced marches in full marching order in boots with zero cushioning on the road is not great for developing bodies

We think that was one of the reasons the scheme was scrapped in favour of adult trainees that join later at the same time as normal diggers. I graduated at the end of '93 and the scheme only ran for another four years after I left.

 

[ovb]

68...some days I feel younger and some I feel older but as the old folks say...I saw some way cool bands and I drove some very cool cars and hung out with some awesome people ......

 

[130lights]

68...some days I feel younger and some I feel older but as the old folks say...I saw some way cool bands and I drove some very cool cars and hung out with some awesome people ......

And if we’re smart, we’ve educated our kids and grands on the many cool musicians and music we lived with.

My son took his daughter to see Roger Waters last summer. She loved it.

 

[ShortForBob]

68...some days I feel younger and some I feel older but as the old folks say...I saw some way cool bands and I drove some very cool cars and hung out with some awesome people ......

True dat.
Our generation had it all, equal pay for women, cheap safe contraception (and other Family planning) that worked, Affordable education.
And the Ramones.

I feel for the under 35's today.

 

[Ed Lada]

And if we’re smart, we’ve educated our kids and grands on the many cool musicians and music we lived with.

My son took his daughter to see Roger Waters last summer. She loved it.

My daughter was hooked on classic rock the first time I played a Janis Joplin CD for her back in the early 2000s. She said she told her school mates about Janis and none of them knew who she was talking about.

Of course I took her to a Bruce Springsteen concert in 2003. She loved it.

Not all of the newer music is bad, my daughter turned me on to Evanescence among others.

 

[ShortForBob]

My daughter was hooked on classic rock the first time I played a Janis Joplin CD for her back in the early 2000s. She said she told her school mates about Janis and none of them knew who she was talking about.

Of course I took her to a Bruce Springsteen concert in 2003. She loved it.

Not all of the newer music is bad, my daughter turned me on to Evanescence among others.

My daughter went to a dress up party last week. Theme was musicians. She went as Janice.

All her friends, all my son's friends opine that their generations music sucks.
Walked into work last week and another mid twenties had put The Stooges on the PA. so it's not just mine and yours.

 

[Se7en]

Not all of the newer music is bad, my daughter turned me on to Evanescence among others.

Current music just hasn't had time for the briefly popular dross to fade out, and just the good stuff to remain. I listen to a lot of 80s stuff now, but I remember at the time that there was also a lot of shit on the radio as well. For every violent femmes / U2 / REM / GnR etc there was a bunch of Stock aiken and waterman produced bubblegum pop. You just forget about the crap, cause it doesn't appear in your CD collection.

Anyway, my 12 YO daughter has an ongoing argument with me that Billie Eilish is her generations Nirvana. Taking a slightly different approach to typical rock, but producing some dammed good music. I have to say I'm coming around to agree with her. (She still picked 'Come as you are' as her primary school graduation song).

One thing I will say is that current muso's tend to have a different approach to playing live. The few I;ve seen - and Billie Eilish was a prime example - try very hard to deliver on stage exactly like their CDs. Seems a bit artificial to me, but then again I've been to some gigs where old rock bands have delivered crap. But occasionally you get some gems where the live performance is a level above their recorded music. (I'm looking at you Weddings Parties Anything, and you Elbow, and you too Angels)

 

[Ed Lada]

Current music just hasn't had time for the briefly popular dross to fade out, and just the good stuff to remain. I listen to a lot of 80s stuff now, but I remember at the time that there was also a lot of shit on the radio as well. For every violent femmes / U2 / REM / GnR etc there was a bunch of Stock aiken and waterman produced bubblegum pop. You just forget about the crap, cause it doesn't appear in your CD collection.

Anyway, my 12 YO daughter has an ongoing argument with me that Billie Eilish is her generations Nirvana. Taking a slightly different approach to typical rock, but producing some dammed good music. I have to say I'm coming around to agree with her. (She still picked 'Come as you are' as her primary school graduation song).

One thing I will say is that current muso's tend to have a different approach to playing live. The few I;ve seen - and Billie Eilish was a prime example - try very hard to deliver on stage exactly like their CDs. Seems a bit artificial to me, but then again I've been to some gigs where old rock bands have delivered crap. But occasionally you get some gems where the live performance is a level above their recorded music. (I'm looking at you Weddings Parties Anything, and you Elbow, and you too Angels)

Speaking of Billie Eilish, here is our hometown heroine Sara James covering Eilish's Lovely on America's Got Talent last year when Sara was 13 years old. I prefer Sara's stripped down, far from perfect version, and her raw emotion to the overproduced Eilish video version. Simon Cowell liked it too.

 

[Steam Flyer]

Like so, so, much of modern (last 10-ish years) music, it is REALLY monotonous. The same 3 notes over and over and over and over, throw in a little vibrato for dramatic emphasis, drop to a half-flat and trail off the volume to show it's the end of the song.

There is some great music being made these days, I think the universities music programs are turning out incredibly knowledgable and skilled musicians. But the stuff that makes it to the top of the pop charts... or the FM radio equivalent... is either formulaic copies of 'classic rock' or very repetitive stuff like this. It makes me wonder if the new era of music is so competitive that it's hard to get any traction, and hard for a potential consumer like me to find anything I like.

 

[Mid]

Spark, fuel, air my fucking arse.

needs to b e in the correct order ...

 

[boomer]

Hey I'm only 47 and I wore greens for my first year and a bit before we got cams.

I first tried MREs on exercise in shoalwater bay with the US and I couldn't believe how much waste it produced. And for one meal. Made our 24hr ratpacks look like some kind of genius effort when they were far from it. Don't get me wrong, they weren't too bad really

But we did have biscuits in there called Biscuits, Cereal ... We referred to them as Biscuits, Brick ... good for hammering tent pegs in for your hoochy

Edited to add: cams were a godsend. Greens needed to be starched and ironed properly but cams, no iron required! WOOHOO!

Since we talked I asked about a dozen vets I know, who wore both and what they preferred. No one said they liked the CUU, CMU, BDU, or any versions of the camo more then greens TCU (Tropical Combat Uniform).

However, the ability of CAMO being able to change from Woodland to lighter Desert uniforms was universally praised. One younger active duty "lifer" your age said, "Woodlands always felt thicker and heavier. So we would change from woodlands to deserts and it was much welcomed. Next thing I know, we roll sleeves in deserts and it was peak chad energy. Then we went to woodlands full time, rolling sleeves based on daylight savings. Now they're doing away with daylight savings, and maybe we'll just wear them inside out."

As you know, in the field or in country, we didn't have to starch and press our uniforms - only when stationed stateside or when stationed at one of our Embassies, where the dress uniform was usually worn, or Seabees providing security with the Marines wore starched and pressed greens, where doing such was required.

However for comfort, fit and cost the cotton the greens were preferred - except for some in extreme cold weather environment such as in the Arctic or deployed to the Antarctic McMurdo Station, which the Seabees maintain and do new construction for where the thicker Woodland uniform was worn in the outside environs, and the lighter Desert uniform could be worn inside the station under lienient Base Commanders.

Everyone I asked preferred, Tropical Combat Uniform or as more popularly known, the Jungle Fatigue is the greatest uniform ever worn by the US Navy Seabees, US Navy Marines or the US Army. The fact that they were made from 100% cotton was mainly the reason for the comfortable fit, and one didn't sweat like one does in the hybrid cotton/polyester or non-breathable nyco ripstop fabrics. One would think the polyester would breath better, but the layer of waterproofing prevented the garments from being permeable.

A foray on the web, found the same preference overall for the greens.

The Greatest Uniform Ever Fielded By The US Army

 

[boomer]

The reason I don't like the camo on everything from kids clothing to lunch buckets to camo on just about everything manufactured. This bromide of indoctronation infecting everyone's minds. Even Neil Pryde put out a Combat Wave Sail, with camo sails - yuck. I was at the Seattle Mariners baseball game on Memorial Day with my brother a few years back. Whenever I attend a Mariners game, there is an air of militarism surrounding the game, probably due to having Navy, Army and Air Force bases all up and down the Puget Sound Basin, but attending on Memorial Day helps to remind us what a truly militarized society America has become.

What in the world does baseball, an American pastime, have to do with America’s countless foreign wars, which have killed, tortured, and maimed millions of people?


One of the most awful aspects to U.S. militarism is the bromide that has infected the minds of so many Americans: that U.S. soldiers have sacrificed their lives or limbs in foreign wars to “defend our freedom” here at home. Not surprisingly, it was repeated at that Mariners game. People who came to watch a baseball game were asked to remember the sacrifices, including deaths, that American servicemen have made in the “defense of our freedom.”


Why do I find that awful? Two reasons: first, The bromide is palpably false, and, second, it is a testament to the power of state to indoctrinate the citizenry.

This is a bromide that is inculcated into every child, from the time he reaches six years of age and heads into the public (i.e., government) school system. By the time the kid reaches his teen years, the indoctrination is taking hold. By the time he becomes an adult, the indoctrination is complete. In fact, the indoctrination is so perfect that actually it doesn’t matter what the troops are doing overseas. Whatever they are doing is automatically considered to be “defending our freedom.”

Consider a hypothetical. Suppose there is some country thousands of miles away that is minding its own business. There are no attacks on the United States or even threats to attack the United States. The only problem is that the regime is not sufficiently submissive to the U.S. government.


The U.S. government decides to invade the country and install a pro-U.S. regime. The troops are sent into battle. Some are killed. Countless more people are killed on the other side.


There is no doubt that millions of Americans will automatically conclude that those U.S. troops killed and died “defending our freedom,” notwithstanding the fact that our freedom was never at risk. Remember: that hypothetical country never attacked the United States or even threatened to do so. Yet, many Americans will nonetheless honor their brave and courageous soldiers who died or lost arms or legs while “defending our freedom.” It is how the indoctrinated mind works.


How can I be so certain that that’s the way many Americans would react to that hypothetical situation? Because that’s what happened with Iraq, a country whose government never attacked the United States or even threatened to do so. Thus, not one single U.S. soldier died in Iraq “defending our freedom” because our freedom was never threatened by Iraq.


The same holds true for the 58,000 plus American soldiers who died in the Vietnam War. North Vietnam was engaged in a civil war against South Vietnam. The US assassinated their leader, install a pro-U.S leader, and the U.S. joined in the fray. At no time did North Vietnam attack or invade the United States. It had no interest in doing so and, anyway, it lacked the military capability to do so. The U.S. government invaded Vietnam and embroiled itself in its civil war. At no time were the freedoms of the American people threatened by the North Vietnamese. The American troops who were sent to the deaths in Vietnam did not die in the defense of our freedom here at home. Nor to stop communism as capitalism pretty much destroyed communism in all of Vietnam, as they're a capitalistic state, and communist in name only. There are only a handful of states practicing communism. China's socio-economic structure has been referred to as "nationalistic state capitalism" and the Eastern Bloc (Eastern Europe and the Third World) as "bureaucratic-authoritarian systems." North Korean is an authoritarian state led by the Kim family for 70 years - something the bumbling knucklehead conman aspired to do. - and got slapped down by Americans on both sides of the aisle. Today, the existing recognized communist states in the world are in China, Cuba, Laos, and Vietnam - but China and Vietnam are capitalistic societies.


The same is true for the tens of thousands of American men who were sent to their deaths in the Korean War. North Korea never attacked or invaded the United States or even threatened to do so. American freedom here at home was never threatened. Thus, those U.S. soldiers in Korea did not die defending our freedom.


What about the soldiers who died in the U.S. invasion of Panama or Grenada? Again, Panama and Granada never attacked the United States or even threatened to do so. Those troops did not die in the defense of our freedom.


World War I? At no time did Germany or Austria-Hungary attack the United States or even threaten to do so. The Great War was a war between empires, one that never endangered the freedom of the American people. The U.S. government simply chose to intervene in that conflict in the hopes of “making the world safe for democracy” and to “end all wars.” Those U.S. soldiers who died in World War I did not die defending our freedom.


What about the so-called “good war” - World War II. While Japan attacked U.S. forces at Pearl Harbor and the Philippines, the attack was a direct consequence of President Roosevelt’s repeated attempts to induce Japan to attack the United States to fulfill his wish to get the United States into the war. FDR had imposed an oil embargo on Japan, frozen Japanese bank accounts in the United States, and imposed humiliating terms in pre-war negotiations with Japan, all with the aim of getting Japan to “fire the first shot” so that the United States could get into the war. Japan never had the aim or the military means of invading and occupying the United States and depriving the American people of their freedom.


What about Nazi Germany? It desired to avoid war with the United States, which is why FDR used Japan as a “back door” to war. The only reason Germany declared war on the United States after Pearl Harbor was to fulfill its treaty obligations to Japan. Before England declared war on Germany, it was clear that Hitler was moving east toward the Soviet Union, not west toward the United States. Moreover, since Germany lacked the military means economically or a shipbuilding infrastructure to build enough vessels to cross the English Channel and invade England, how in the world would it cross the Atlantic Ocean and invade the United States? Anglo-German Naval Agreement, bilateral concord between Britain and Germany countenancing a German navy but limiting it to 35% of the size of the British navy, was a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the U.S. Navy.


Moreover, consider the aftermath of World War II: East Germany and Eastern Europe and China all under communist control. Isn’t that what American soldiers actually died for - so that the communists, rather than the Nazis or Japanese, could control those parts of the world? Even if one finds that a worthy thing to die for, it’s a far cry from dying in the defense of our freedom here at home.


Oh, I almost forgot Afghanistan. No, al-Qaeda was never going to invade and occupy the United States and take away our freedom. Neither was the Taliban. The 9/11 attacks were retaliation for actions taken by the U.S. government in the Middle East prior to 9/11. The Taliban government never attacked the United States or even threatened to do so.


The truth, as discomforting as it is, is that the many U.S soldiers who have been sacrificed in America’s countless foreign wars did not die defending our freedom. That’s nothing more than a false bromide used to justify America’s never-ending foreign wars.


When enough people break through the indoctrination, the bromide will no longer have the power it does over people’s minds. At that point, maybe Americans will be free to enjoy baseball games and other sporting events without all the militarism attached to them.

 

[SloopJonB]

The truth, as discomforting as it is, is that the many U.S soldiers who have been sacrificed in America’s countless foreign wars did not die defending our freedom. That’s nothing more than a false bromide used to justify America’s never-ending foreign wars.

This.

WW II is the only "good" war I can think of - all the rest were political/economic bullshit.

Well, maybe Korea and the first Gulf war were valid as well but prior to that you'd have to go back to Napoleon.

 

[2_Hulls]

58, but after looking at the average here I suddenly don't feel quite so old..
Checking on when I joined was a bit frightening though, shit, where did that 15 years disappear to?!?
Just retired and bought the 46' cat/retirement plan, now we just need to sell the house and we're out of here to see the world.

 

[giegs]

I'm young enough to remember friends being quietly pulled out of class on 9/11 because their parents worked in the towers. Not long after, my track team captain was killed in action on a patrol in Afghanistan. It's been some time since I've tried to remember everyone I've known who was killed, maimed, committed suicide, or degraded into a shell of their former selves as a result of the GWOT, but it's a distressing number and has only gone up since I was a freshman in high school.

I couldn't draw a line between any one of those losses and my freedom. It's rare to encounter anyone my age who wouldn't scoff at the idea of trying, even if they're inclined towards nationalism. Everyone knows the popular mythos of American war-making is bull, but the stories we tell ourselves about it are more comforting than the reality. That's a far more dangerous mixture than any external threat, with a well established track record for how it'll end up.

Thanks for that usage of bromide @boomer. New to me.

 

[tp#12]

Since we talked I asked about a dozen vets I know, who wore both and what they preferred. No one said they liked the CUU, CMU, BDU, or any versions of the camo more then greens TCU (Tropical Combat Uniform).

However, the ability of CAMO being able to change from Woodland to lighter Desert uniforms was universally praised. One younger active duty "lifer" your age said, "Woodlands always felt thicker and heavier. So we would change from woodlands to deserts and it was much welcomed. Next thing I know, we roll sleeves in deserts and it was peak chad energy. Then we went to woodlands full time, rolling sleeves based on daylight savings. Now they're doing away with daylight savings, and maybe we'll just wear them inside out."

As you know, in the field or in country, we didn't have to starch and press our uniforms - only when stationed stateside or when stationed at one of our Embassies, where the dress uniform was usually worn, or Seabees providing security with the Marines wore starched and pressed greens, where doing such was required.

However for comfort, fit and cost the cotton the greens were preferred - except for some in extreme cold weather environment such as in the Arctic or deployed to the Antarctic McMurdo Station, which the Seabees maintain and do new construction for where the thicker Woodland uniform was worn in the outside environs, and the lighter Desert uniform could be worn inside the station under lienient Base Commanders.

Everyone I asked preferred, Tropical Combat Uniform or as more popularly known, the Jungle Fatigue is the greatest uniform ever worn by the US Navy Seabees, US Navy Marines or the US Army. The fact that they were made from 100% cotton was mainly the reason for the comfortable fit, and one didn't sweat like one does in the hybrid cotton/polyester or non-breathable nyco ripstop fabrics. One would think the polyester would breath better, but the layer of waterproofing prevented the garments from being permeable.

A foray on the web, found the same preference overall for the greens.

The Greatest Uniform Ever Fielded By The US Army

I didn’t mean for my laziness with an iron to offend 😁

 

[boomer]

No offense taken - keep in contact with 12 Seabees vets, six Marine vets, three Army vets, and a host of other vets on eight websites, and a host of FB groups, have an inquisitive mind, so just say'n after an informal polling...

 

[Ukuri]

54 and I'm learning how photons have no mass yet can't pass through solid objects, whereas neutrinos have mass yet pass through any solid object.
All because there has to be a reason why cuntfuckingfuckcunt two stroke engines will only fucking start when they're fucking good and ready.
Spark, fuel, air my fucking arse.

Crankcase seal.

 

[Ukuri]

Crankcase seal.

Or if it's a very small motor, brushcutter etc, and you're in Qld, check the exhaust outlet for mud wasp nests.

 

[boomer]

I'm young enough to remember friends being quietly pulled out of class on 9/11 because their parents worked in the towers. Not long after, my track team captain was killed in action on a patrol in Afghanistan. It's been some time since I've tried to remember everyone I've known who was killed, maimed, committed suicide, or degraded into a shell of their former selves as a result of the GWOT, but it's a distressing number and has only gone up since I was a freshman in high school.

I couldn't draw a line between any one of those losses and my freedom. It's rare to encounter anyone my age who wouldn't scoff at the idea of trying, even if they're inclined towards nationalism. Everyone knows the popular mythos of American war-making is bull, but the stories we tell ourselves about it are more comforting than the reality. That's a far more dangerous mixture than any external threat, with a well established track record for how it'll end up.

Thanks for that usage of bromide @boomer. New to me.

Unfortunately something like 43% of Republicans, roughly six-in-ten veterans (59%) identify as Republican or Republican-leaning with about half leaning to nationalism, active duty usually 75% of officers were Democrat, and 75% of enlisted were Republican till Trump abandoned our Kurd allies in Syria, after which Republican support fell under 50%, then after Trump ignored the Russian bounties on our service members, support fell to 38% - in those cases aprox half leaned towards nationalism. Not finding anything in 2021 and 2022 showing a major rebound from those low numbers. Hopefully the younger generations will continue to ignore the bull and become more enlightened.

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