Alhadder
Super Anarchist
Another 69'er. It was a good vintage. About 6 weeks younger than you.
Curious - How Old Is Everybody?
- Thread starter Point Break
- Start date
The incredible story of the U.S. Army Rangers who assaulted the 100 foot-high cliffs of Pointe du Hoc on June 6, 1944, just before the amphib landing at Normandy, where 6 German cannons were supposed to be located and taken out.
The Ranger battalions were commanded by Lieutenant Colonel James Earl Rudder. The plan called for the three companies of Rangers to be landed by sea at the foot of the cliffs, scale them using ropes, ladders, and grapples while under enemy fire, and engage the enemy at the top of the cliff. This was to be carried out before the main landings. The Rangers trained for the cliff assault on the Isle of Wight, under the direction of British Commandos.
225 Rangers made the assault, 77 killed and 152 wounded - 90 standing in the end, and nearly all had more then one wound.
This is a superbly accurate account of the Rangers successful attack on the gun battery at the Pointe du Hoc, Normandy, on D-Day. It is the first one I have seen that shows how the guns were tracked down and destroyed by an incredible act of bravery by two Ranger sergeants, which is something that was ignored by book and film "The Longest Day", and many other accounts since then.
Other smaller but interesting details include the correct spelling and pronunciation of "Pointe du Hoc", and also "Ben-my-Chree", one of the Manx Steam Packet vessels that carried the LCA craft to the Pointe.
It was not until years later, while watching Band Of Brothers a few years ago - and looking at the accuracy in regards to history, that I found out that the raid had been a success, after years of believing that all they had found were telegraph poles.
Even today there are people in the area who are trying to dismiss the attack as a failure for the purpose of promoting their own visitor attraction, so it is a joy to be able to hear the first-hand accounts of the brave Rangers, sadly now all passed away, who scaled the cliffs, and overcoming strong opposition, tracked down and destroyed the guns which were ready to fire, camouflaged in a nearby apple orchard. One of the photos in the film shows a captured gun being examined by General Eisenhower. It was certainly not a telegraph pole.
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veni vidi vici
Omne quod audimus est opinio, non res. Omnia videm
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We took a one day guided tour of the Normandy beach area, chilling.
It was a beautiful sunny day without a cloud in the sky and people were enjoying the beach, eerie and unexpected sensory disconnect.
Steam Flyer
Sophisticated Yet Humble
Well, one of the things about WW2 is that the end actually worked out for the greatest good of the greatest number... often aspired to, rarely achieved. Did the Allies fuck some things up, like letting Stalin take over Eastern Europe, yes. That sucked. But it's arguably better than either continuing to fight, or stopping fighting sooner and leaving the Nazis in charge of a reduced Germany, the other two main options.
We removed the closest thing to a really evil government, and built reasonable democracies with functioning economies... well, the people of those countries did so, with the right amount of the right kind of help.
Some of them did. Some of them had to fight after WWII. The European colonial powers were loathe to give up their profitable colonies. France in Indochina and the Brits in India come to mind. There were others as well.
SloopJonB
Super Anarchist
Only because of the Marshall Plan - IMO the most generous act in human history.
Steam Flyer
Sophisticated Yet Humble
Yeah well, some people got their hair mussed...
Seriously, you're completely right and it was a big stumbling block. There was a big mind-set that "we won so we get the spoils" and that led to grasping colonialism well after it was obviously a dead end / losing hand.
But what were the realistic political alternatives? More fighting among the major powers?
There's never been an era of human history (that I know of) in which peace love and happiness prevailed for all.
Amphibious assaults were develeoped by Seabees and Marines in the Pacific, where Seabees are the first ashore with Marines to clear the beaches. At Normandy Seabee Combat Demolition units were in each US Army Combat Demo Unit. When the sun came up in the morning revealing their presence, these hybrid Army/Navy Combat Demo Units, who came under fire, resulting in 52% casualty rate.
"During D-Day of the Normandy invasion on June 6, 1944, the Seabees were among the first to go ashore as part of Naval Combat Demolition units. Working with U.S. Army Engineers, their crucial task was to destroy the steel and concrete barriers that the Germans had built in the water and on the beaches to forestall any amphibious landings. When sunrise revealed their presence, they came under brutal German fire. Entire teams were wiped out when shells prematurely detonated their explosives. Despite the danger, the survivors continued to work until all their explosive charges were planted. As a result of their heroic actions, the charges went off on schedule and huge holes were blown in the enemy's defenses. The arduous assignment of the combat demolition units was only the beginning of the Seabees' work on Normandy's beaches. They anchored large concrete Phoenixes and installed steel wales which became the causeway access bridges to the beach. They then sank more concrete Phoenixes and then scuttle a line of ships to establish breakwaters offshore for safe shoreside operations. Then then oversaw the logistics of landing more troops, vehicles and equipment."
Naval History and Heritage Command - D-Day, the Normandy Invasion: Combat Demolition Units
We Build, We Fight : The Role of the Seabees in the Invasion of Normandy
Before there were Seals - The World War II Version of the Navy SEALs Suffered 52% Casualties at D-Day’s Omaha Beach
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It was to keep Europe from becoming more communist than it did, being generous was the least of the reasons.
I suppose you think the US and Great Britain won the war single handedly too.
There's no doubt it took U.S. efforts and a combined effort by all the allies, to neutralize the evil Axis powers, for the betterment of all. Patton saw that dividing Eastern Europe wasn't a good thang, and wanted to continue on towards Russia. Patton, although he might have wanted eventually to get to Moscow, made the case for pushing the Soviets back to their pre-war borders. And history tells us that was possible. His 3rd army was the best in US history, and with a force of 500,000. Stalin feared them and so did the Germans. You would adjust their strategies according to the location and direction of the 3rd. It was a risk, but was it worth pushing back Red Army to the original lines in Eastern Europe to give those people a chance at 20th century democracy. Patton would say hell yeah! Unfortunately, that didn't happen.
This was Churchill's plan too, in "Operation Unthinkable" - The plan called for a massive Allied assault on 1 July 1945 by British, American, Polish and German – yes German – forces against the Red Army. They aimed to push them back out of Soviet-occupied East Germany and Poland, give Stalin and bloody nose, and force him to re-consider his domination of East Europe.
Operation Unthinkable
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Steam Flyer
Sophisticated Yet Humble
One view of it, the capitalists figured out that if they filled the moat with $100 bills, the peasants' revolt would be much less severe!
Churchill and Roosevelt were as much to blame as Stalin was. Especially Churchill. The map Stalin used was essentially drawn up by a Brit in the 1920s. Churchill showed Stalin, and Stalin liked it. Go figure.
Churchill, like Montgomery and many other important Brits were legends in their own minds.
That's not quite close but whatever.
I just don't have the energy to get into the details right now.
00seven
James "Grumpy" Bond
Dutch in Indonesia...
Ease the sheet.
ignoring stupid people is easy
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00seven
James "Grumpy" Bond
Malaysia?
charisma94
Fucking Legend
Burma?
My father was Dutch fought in the Dutch underground then joined US Forces going up through Italy, after being demobbed the Dutch Army sent him to Indonesia to restore order.
For many, those Colonial outposts would never be the same, their mother countries were so involved in fighting a war -the outposts suffered from the neglect and with it the seeds of independence were firmly planted.
My how the the world has changed.
Glad the old man isn’t with us today considering the blood spilt and lives lost only to see facists raise their ugly heads again.
Thirty years ago some ex vets would have gladly picked up a gun and dealt to them, now their Grandsons are in Congress and like Russia more than the USA.
SMH
Fah Kiew Tu
Curmudgeon, First Rank
Indonesia is still a colonial empire run by the Javanese.
Just ask the Papuans in 'Irian Jaya'.
FKT
00seven
James "Grumpy" Bond
You could take that up with the Dutch, the UN, Sukarno & Kennedy but it's probably a bit late for that.
