Dalton: bullshitter alert!

[The Advocate]

This really is a go eat a bag of dicks thread.

 

[G-Shack]

I know this clown says a lot of stupid shit, but I wonder where he thinks the other 60% comes from? 

And a "multi million dollar " house in Auckland really isnt a big deal, the average house is over a million.  

It's only kiwi $$ anyway. Probably paid cash

 

[Perpetual Toil]

Massive news. CEO & employees of company get paid market rates. Actually quite a bit under market rates. Do you think Dalton, Burling, Ashby, Berlusconi et al could not get much more money from Ratcliffe or DeVos? ETNZ are a sports marketing company. Most of the public money has been put in for commercial return. In this Covid affected time some of that has not returned what was planned. Just like millions of businessess world wide. Much of the cash that was " given to ETNZ" went to fund infrastructure for the event, most of which will serve Auckland well after the cup us gone. A large chunk of cash went to clean up the tank farm and Auckland council has sold it as America's Cup spend when it is no such thing. Pure politics & bullshit

That's just it. 

Although counter-intuitive, economists will tell you that the wealthiest active player in the NBA, Lebron James, is also the most underpaid. Why? Because of the deflationary effects on player salaries that exist to keep the league competitive. If Lebron’s salary were determined solely by a) the $$ value that he brought to his team, and b) the extent to which he can be replaced by someone else to bring in the same value, his salaried earnings would be in the stratosphere. And I’d wager that every team that has given him a pay cheque has benefitted from some kind of public subsidy or tax break for arena construction and maintenance.

The same is true for the AC. There are deflationary effects on AC sailors’ and managers’ salaries. There is less than a handful of potential employers. There is a more than notional nationality requirement. And beyond requirement, there is a strong sense of national pride that Brits, Americans, Italians, and Kiwis certainly feel about competing under their own flag. All of this limits their bargaining power.

Because of these deflationary effects, GD is not paid solely according to the $$ value that he brings in. Sure, he can walk and join another team, but that most certainly comes with a huge legacy cost. As others have pointed out, the salary of a CEO of a major corporation is not subject to the same limitations.

I don’t have a dog in this fight and don’t really care, but what someone is “worth” or deserving of is not determined by whether there is a public contribution, at least not in the world of professional sports. And it obviously has nothing to do with how they spend their money.

 

[36thLatitude]

That's just it. 

Although counter-intuitive, economists will tell you that the wealthiest active player in the NBA, Lebron James, is also the most underpaid. Why? Because of the deflationary effects on player salaries that exist to keep the league competitive. If Lebron’s salary were determined solely by a) the $$ value that he brought to his team, and b) the extent to which he can be replaced by someone else to bring in the same value, his salaried earnings would be in the stratosphere. And I’d wager that every team that has given him a pay cheque has benefitted from some kind of public subsidy or tax break for arena construction and maintenance.

The same is true for the AC. There are deflationary effects on AC sailors’ and managers’ salaries. There is less than a handful of potential employers. There is a more than notional nationality requirement. And beyond requirement, there is a strong sense of national pride that Brits, Americans, Italians, and Kiwis certainly feel about competing under their own flag. All of this limits their bargaining power.

Because of these deflationary effects, GD is not paid solely according to the $$ value that he brings in. Sure, he can walk and join another team, but that most certainly comes with a huge legacy cost. As others have pointed out, the salary of a CEO of a major corporation is not subject to the same limitations.

I don’t have a dog in this fight and don’t really care, but what someone is “worth” or deserving of is not determined by whether there is a public contribution, at least not in the world of professional sports. And it obviously has nothing to do with how they spend their money.

He took on the pressure and risk and has been a winner so good on him. My only issue is when they "sell out" like Coutts and Butterbean 

 

[phill_nz]

when it comes to ceo's and boards i find it hard to find even one i think can justify the package they award themselves

that is what has happened since the monkeys started to run the zoo's

why bother picking on dalton .. sure he is a selfish greedy fuk .. but name one that isn't

at least he is relatively competent .. which puts him streets ahead of most i have met

 

[Erwankerauzen]

Whatever the industry you are looking at, everywhere the same old adage would apply:

If you give peanuts, you have monkeys .

Sorry Team Prada if it upsets you, but I have been told all the team at ETNZ will get an extra-bonus for the Cup.

Not sure if it is public money, I feel confident you  will check.

 

[idontwan2know]

OP is obviously overwrought, but ultimately this is always going to be a legitimate area of discussion when you have a team that wants to operate as a private entity but also press the government for public money and position themselves as a national team.

ETNZ absolutely plays in that grey area and suits their message and how they present themselves based on whether they need money or the freedom to operate as a private company separate from national interest. They open themselves up to people being resentful when they play that game.

It'd be a lot better for all involved if ETNZ were to find alternate funding sources, and for any government money to go only to a more independent event authority. Having Dalts be the CEO of both is just bad optics from a competitive standpoint and in terms of government funding.

 

[NeedAClew]

I hope one day the Cup goes to a Club in a place that has more money than NZ. Nothing against NZ per se, but their winning means another cycle of money whining. And now the threat of a LE/RC style shopping the venue to high bidders?  Gawd. Next they will want to make it financially sustainable. 

 

[jaysper]

Whatever the industry you are looking at, everywhere the same old adage would apply:

If you give peanuts, you have monkeys .

Sorry Team Prada if it upsets you, but I have been told all the team at ETNZ will get an extra-bonus for the Cup.

Not sure if it is public money, I feel confident you  will check.

You think Prada didn't pay their team well? That's laughable.

What's even more laughable is the thought that the likes of Jimmy would take the foot off the pedal even one tiny bit because of the lack of some fucking bonus.

You have got zero idea about what motivates people to perform.

Go buy this book. Come back when you've read it at least 3 times. If you still feel the same, get a lobotomy.

https://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Tom-DeMarco/dp/0932633439

 

[The Advocate]

OP is obviously overwrought, but ultimately this is always going to be a legitimate area of discussion when you have a team that wants to operate as a private entity but also press the government for public money and position themselves as a national team.

ETNZ absolutely plays in that grey area and suits their message and how they present themselves based on whether they need money or the freedom to operate as a private company separate from national interest. They open themselves up to people being resentful when they play that game.

It'd be a lot better for all involved if ETNZ were to find alternate funding sources, and for any government money to go only to a more independent event authority. Having Dalts be the CEO of both is just bad optics from a competitive standpoint and in terms of government funding.

I agree with your take. I can't help but wonder though that to get public money they had to open the books. If they didn't I would be quite shocked.

 

[mauriciogfj]

I guess ETNZ could fund part, if not all, of its next campaign by licencing most (not necessarily all) of its intellectual property to potential challengers, (control systems, design and simulation tools, etc). That would not only possibly inhibit personnel poaching but also preempt success bred complacency. Does it make sense?

 

[Priscilla]

I agree with your take. I can't help but wonder though that to get public money they had to open the books. If they didn't I would be quite shocked.

Maybe that's why Steven Tindall appeared to favour TNZ continuing to operate as a stand alone entity without accepting being accountable for the money the Government is offering.

 

[mako23]

They aren't taking government money numb nuts!

If the citizens of NZ are happy for the Govt to sponsors ETNZ then why are you worried about. If I had my way I’d give them more.

 

[Paddywackery]

I guess ETNZ could fund part, if not all, of its next campaign by licencing most (not necessarily all) of its intellectual property to potential challengers, (control systems, design and simulation tools, etc). That would not only possibly inhibit personnel poaching but also preempt success bred complacency. Does it make sense?

In monetising the knowledge, you cede some competitive advantage. I do share your view that there's an awful lot of valuable expertise at ETNZ than can be commercialised beyond Americas Cup to fund an independent financial future. I suspect that McKinsey will open doors in this regard.

 

[Sailbydate]

I hope one day the Cup goes to a Club in a place that has more money than NZ.

Been there, done that - Switzerland.

 

[Sailbydate]

I guess ETNZ could fund part, if not all, of its next campaign by licencing most (not necessarily all) of its intellectual property to potential challengers, (control systems, design and simulation tools, etc). That would not only possibly inhibit personnel poaching but also preempt success bred complacency. Does it make sense?

Sure it makes sense. But it likely also increases the chance of an unsuccessful Defence, no?

 

[terrafirma]

Good luck to him if he can make the big $$$. This is an elite sport, always has been. It's the playground for the rich and famous. Why stop at Dalton? What about Ainslie what do you think he's getting paid? And a SIR to boot. Grant has been good for the team, without his "CUNT" as you say would Team NZ be the team they are today? What about Coutts.? In the game of CEO's the best get the big bucks.! It's always been that way. Dalton has to perform and get the results and you don't always achieve that by being Mr Nice Guy.! 

 

[mauriciogfj]

Sure it makes sense. But it likely also increases the chance of an unsuccessful Defence, no?

Sure it would. Perhaps the critical aspect would be to choose what piece of knowledge or process is unique and should be held onto. On the other hand if don't monetise it now you risk losing it for free by having people walk away after greener pastures or pockets. I dare say though that what makes ETNZ uniquely successful  is not one particular piece of knowledge or a given person, but how this complex assembly  has been put together and made effective. I wonder how much of the Prada success in the current edition is rooted in Max Sirena experience within ETNZ in the previous cup.
On top of it the team still has control over the class rule and may massage it in a convenient direction.

 

[kiwin]

I am sure Sirenas  experience with ETNZ helped. I also think that Bertelli not attending in NZ was a total bonus.

 

[mauriciogfj]

I am sure Sirenas  experience with ETNZ helped. I also think that Bertelli not attending in NZ was a total bonus.

Good point, 18000 km is a safe distance to keep from your boss.