Daysailer for old people
- Thread starter socalrider
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Sail4beer
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Sail4beer
Starboard!
Here’s my 20’ boat with a proper Hereshoff cabin top in the proper location. No dodger needed
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Sail4beer
Starboard!
And yes, the floating dock has been replaced with fresh everything. It lasted 30 years...probably 5 years too long.
bmiller
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socalrider
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Kind of intrigued by the Esse 850 in the classifieds. Room for a tiny head below. Not sure if I can sell the parents on something so sporty, but I suspect she could be set up to be very easily sailed, and the featherweight displacement and huge ballast/disp ratio would make for good stability. Sit-on vs sit-in might be an issue. Man what a beautiful boat...
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socalrider
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Any thoughts on sit-on versus sit-in cockpits? Parents are concerned about comfort on the Esse 850.
I find myself always sitting on the coaming with my feet on the cockpit seats while underway and heeling; but this seems to be one consistent distinction between the daysailer versus sportboat designs. I'd guess you'd get wet sitting to leeward in any sort of breeze without the coaming. And maybe a wet bum after a tack.
There's also a J/27 that just came on the market; would need some spiffing up but I've always liked them. It has cockpit coamings, but they're pretty short & I'm not sure if they'd be a net benefit to comfort in actual use.
I find myself always sitting on the coaming with my feet on the cockpit seats while underway and heeling; but this seems to be one consistent distinction between the daysailer versus sportboat designs. I'd guess you'd get wet sitting to leeward in any sort of breeze without the coaming. And maybe a wet bum after a tack.
There's also a J/27 that just came on the market; would need some spiffing up but I've always liked them. It has cockpit coamings, but they're pretty short & I'm not sure if they'd be a net benefit to comfort in actual use.
SpongeDeckSquareFoil
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From Harbor 20 to Esse 850. This thread sure narrows it down.
Is the "traditional" appearance thing still a factor?
Is the "traditional" appearance thing still a factor?
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J-27 would be a great pick. Hard to go wrong with one of them. Blackadder used to be a regular here...
my distant recollection is seat height plus coaming isn’t full back support, but not a kidney buster either. Kinda in between the two.
plus for the money, you could put some extra into it and really make it nice...
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socalrider
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- #351
Yeah part of what's happening is I'm opportunistically responding to stuff that comes on the market. Inventory is really really slim, so while there are lots of really cool boats available in distant areas the reality of COVID right now means we're stuck looking at what's nearby.
Harbor 20 is too small, we need a head even if it's minimal.
Traditional appearance would be great, I'm finding that a lot of the traditional stuff is really heavy and undercanvased and wouldn't be much fun in our 8-10kts. Brightwork maintenance is also a concern.
So ideally we'd have something with a lighter displacement, modern sail plan (small jib), not too much brightwork, and locally available.
In reality, here in SoCal there's the J/27, a few J/105's and a bunch of beaten up IOR/MORC 70's/80's 27-33 footers with big genoas, small cockpits, and more accommodation than required. In the Bay there's the Esse 850 on a trailer. No Alerions or J/100's which would probably be better choices. Oh and the Morris M29 at $150k (though it now shows as sale pending...) Suppose we could order a J/9 for a bit less. But slim pickings so the criteria are getting flexible.
Bristol-Cruiser
Super Anarchist
What is a J 27 like singlehanded (by an older, but very experienced dude)? Could you set it up with a Hoyt jib boom to get a poor man's J100?J-27, painted dark navy blue with a gold cove stripe white boot stripe, two tone grey and white deck and varnished brightwork (what little there is) is a really nice looking combination. This is close, but not exactly it...
Bull City
A fine fellow
On the J27, while I haven't sailed on one, I have owned two J22's and the boats seem to have some similarities. Two comments: The J22 cockpit was just OK from a comfort standpoint; the backrests are not very high. IMHO, the J22 was pretty dependent on crew weight. If you were single-handing with a breeze much over 10 knots, the boat could be difficult to manage. The J27 may be less so.
That said, the J22 is a sweet sailing boat, and I imagine the 27 is too.
That said, the J22 is a sweet sailing boat, and I imagine the 27 is too.
TwoLegged
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I suspect a bit less so. The J/27 has a ballast ration of ~40%. vs ~30% for the J/22.
However, it's still a very 1980s-style keel, with no bulb.
A J/80 would be better for vegetarian* sailing, since it does have a bulb
* vegetarian sailing = no rail meat
Sail4beer
Starboard!
The boat I showed above had that on the list of mods to make the boat comfortable. The benches were about 6”above the sole and the coaming so dead vertical that you couldn’t sit all the way back and the top of the coaming would dig your back. It was like sailing at the little kids table.
I was going to remove the benches and modify it to a sit on coaming like a Melges 24 or MC scow to have some leg room but was worried about sailing with some of my older friends that like a little comfort. After some thought, I decided to cut the sole out and leave a small potion of the keel sump for stability. It gave me the necessary clearance to leave the benches and allowed enough legroom to comfortably sit back and enjoy sailing without the pain in the back. Now I’ll fill up the open areas with 2 part foam and glass the edges back to better support the benches.
Since the folks are older, I’m going to suggest that they wouldn’t like to sit on the coamings for an afternoon sail...get them a Ensign and don’t hike out.
A J/80 with its 48% ballast ratio and a bulb is definitively less crew weight dependent than a J-27, plus for a single hander, comes with a sprit and Asym...
For SoCal's use, the J-27 has seats/coaming, so sit it is possible/useable. J-27 has a better, more useable interior/head, but has a conventional chute.
The J/80 is only sit on, so would make it harder on his folks, I'd guess. Cabin smaller, harder to use, but does have a sprit and aysm.
J/80 rates 120 PHRF, 126 ODR while a J-27 rates 129 PHRF. Both sail well, and both can be weapons on the race course.
To answer Bristol's question, sure you could put a hoyt boom (I appreciate what they do, but hate how they look/clutter the foredeck) or maybe better a track just forward of the mast to allow self tacking upwind. Would need to upgrade to self tailing winches and get a decent autopilot. And your dealing with an outboard vs. an inboard diesel, but its easily reached from the helm/cockpit, so not a huge PITA from that regard.
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socalrider
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Thanks guys. I suspect coamings are a requirement, much as I love the Esse myself. J/27 is a possibility.
There's a Synergy 1000 listed up in SF. Bigger, ,more protected cockpit, 33', 4300lbs, small inboard, asking $55k. Could set it up with a dutchman and maybe even rig a self-tacker with a small jib. And secretly plot a Transpac run...
There's a Synergy 1000 listed up in SF. Bigger, ,more protected cockpit, 33', 4300lbs, small inboard, asking $55k. Could set it up with a dutchman and maybe even rig a self-tacker with a small jib. And secretly plot a Transpac run...
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