Defending an existing PHRF rating

[SailRacer]

Need ideas (that have worked in the past) on how to convince the newish group of handicappers from dinging a boat that has done well for the past 8 years.

Existing rating is same as 'similar' light air locations. 40+ yr old Mulls design has been well cared for and has adjusting genoa cars and backstay and bottom cleaned regularly.

Thought it a good idea to ask (but if LR is here, maybe not). Flame away and Sail Safe!

 

[Svanen]

 

[sailorman44]

Someone has protested your rating because of your consistently good performance and their poor performance. It must be because of your favorable rating because they are such good sailors. Yeah right.
 
Remember that PHRF rates the boat and not the sailor. All things being equal a very good sailor will always beat a pretty good sailor


 
The most important thing is to go in to rating review with fact based arguments NOT an emotional argument.
 
Compare you boat to other similar boats in the local  PHRF fleet. Look at waterline length,draft, displacement, sail area. Compare sail area displacement ratio of the other boats and your boat and plot that in a graph. 


 
Compare your rating with the ratings for your boat in other PHRF areas. If any of the other boats in your area are represented it other PHRFares include them. 
 
Go back to the races you did for the past 8 years, further if possible, record your performance race by race and year by year. Plot the results in graphical form. You want to show consistent performance or better, improving performance.
 
Present all the above data in graphical form: a  good graph is worth many pages of techno babble.
 
Present details on how you maintain you boat: bottom preparation, equipment upgrade/replacement, sail replacement cycle
 
Talk about your crew, how long they have sailed with you, how you train, their proficiency, their ability to fill any position at need.
 
When you go into the meeting give each member of the handicap committee a packet, not more than two or three pages, of the above analysis. When you make your presentation talk to those points, explaining how you developed the data. Avoid any Ad hominem argument.
 
Remember! PHRF rates the boat NOT the sailor. Slap them upside the head with that. Prove that your boat is no better than other boats of your rating class and that your success is due to superior boat preparation, superior sailing ability and consistent crew work.
 
 
 

 

[Miffy]

Everything said above. 

Also with ratings, since it is a new group, you don't know how it is coming so don't start with an adversial tone. Informative and work with the group. Their focus should be to ensure equity and parity. If their review process increases your rating, don't target them, read their findings and humbly ask them to apply the same methodology to the rest of the fleet. 

 

[VWAP]

what area

 

[Svanen]

Remember! PHRF rates the boat NOT the sailor. 

If you say so ...

While sailorman44 has given you some good tips, there is another (easier, better) option: just sail IRC. It may cost a bit more, but you won't have to worry about all the subjectivity, 'politics' and parochialism that so plague PHRF.

As the t-shirts say: "Friends don't let friends sail PHRF".

 

[anzhu]

In Cape Town we have moved to ORC and it has been a great success so far. Lots of very tight racing.

 

[sailorman44]

Svanen, In most of the US PHRF is the only option.  Rate the boat not the sailor is what PHRF clams. Make them stick to it. PHRF also assumes that the boat is well prepared, well sailed, and has good sails.

 

[Crash]

Someone has protested your rating because of your consistently good performance and their poor performance. It must be because of your favorable rating because they are such good sailors. Yeah right.
 
Remember that PHRF rates the boat and not the sailor. All things being equal a very good sailor will always beat a pretty good sailor


 
The most important thing is to go in to rating review with fact based arguments NOT an emotional argument.
 
Compare you boat to other similar boats in the local  PHRF fleet. Look at waterline length,draft, displacement, sail area. Compare sail area displacement ratio of the other boats and your boat and plot that in a graph. 


 
Compare your rating with the ratings for your boat in other PHRF areas. If any of the other boats in your area are represented it other PHRFares include them. 
 
Go back to the races you did for the past 8 years, further if possible, record your performance race by race and year by year. Plot the results in graphical form. You want to show consistent performance or better, improving performance.
 
Present all the above data in graphical form: a  good graph is worth many pages of techno babble.
 
Present details on how you maintain you boat: bottom preparation, equipment upgrade/replacement, sail replacement cycle
 
Talk about your crew, how long they have sailed with you, how you train, their proficiency, their ability to fill any position at need.
 
When you go into the meeting give each member of the handicap committee a packet, not more than two or three pages, of the above analysis. When you make your presentation talk to those points, explaining how you developed the data. Avoid any Ad hominem argument.
 
Remember! PHRF rates the boat NOT the sailor. Slap them upside the head with that. Prove that your boat is no better than other boats of your rating class and that your success is due to superior boat preparation, superior sailing ability and consistent crew work.
 
 
 

Some additional data on what boat and what area would help us fine tune the input.  All of what sailorman says should be followed.  That said, PHRF is run regionally, and run by "volunteers" who are just trying to do their job.  So be nice to them, and thank them for doing their job, even if you don't get the result you want.  

Along the lines of PHRF rates the boat, not the sailor, it seems that many times as a design ages, as the boat becomes more distant from the newest, greatest thing, as it's price declines, as more and more people who buy it are not serious racers, as its deck gear grows obsolete, and it gets raced more and more "casually" with 15 year old (or older) sails, that its rating over time "grows" to adjust to is new "observed" performance, which is slower than its observed performance from 30 years ago.  Now along comes a smart racer, who updates the deck gear, puts a decent bottom on it, gets a set of reasonably newer sails, updates the running rigging, and removes 40 years of old accumulated flares, life rings, and other crap.  Then that person puts together a decent crew and actually trains some...and the "observed" performance of the boat is now back to where it was 40 years ago.

It may actually be the case that the rating should be adjusted, and that you've been reaping the benefit of a "slower than reality" rating for years now.  Dennis Conner is somewhat renowned in SOCAL for buying an old PHRF beater who's rating has slipped some over the years, and giving it a very through prep job, and then cleaning up, much to everyone's dismay...

 

[Steam Flyer]

Svanen, In most of the US PHRF is the only option.  Rate the boat not the sailor is what PHRF clams. Make them stick to it. PHRF also assumes that the boat is well prepared, well sailed, and has good sails.

Yep

Although from what I've seen, most PHRF racing is done by people who spend some time & money improving the boat, most of the time they fiddle around rather than starting from the ground up like you would with a one-design or like Dennis Connor does (and the fact that he enjoys beating up PHRF fleets is, to me, one reason why he is a lesser personage than say Paul Elvstrom or Buddy Melges). Most PHRF races I've seen are won by getting a good start and having the boat aimed within 45deg of the right direction. But it's still fun and there are some good sailors out there.

The best defense of a rating, assuming a rational, honest, well-intentioned PHRF Board, is to point out the within-PHRF-guidelines improvements you've made to the boat, sail inventory, practice, and sailing to polars; then ask how much of that same work the people complaining about your rating have done. Usually it's not even close. There is no rule in PHRF against working harder.

OTOH you might want to consider .......... if you're just hammering the local fleet and participation is dropping, you might want to shift focus to fleet building, or racing one-design, or travel events. No matter how much the local fleet may deserve hammering, let's all try (as SA'ers) to be improvers of our sport, not destroyers.

Disclaimer- I have never defended a PHRF rating protest against my boat, but I have seen all kinds of disgraceful PHRF Board shenanigans.

FB- Doug

 

[DarkHorse]

Since PHRF wants to rate the boat and not the sailor, give them data for boat on boat. Don't bother with the overall races, as the better sailor wins and the best the PHRF can do is use that input. Rather keep track of legs, showing the speed of similar boats going the same side of the course. That allows you to show PHRF the actual speed of the boat not the ability of the crew to pick a side or make better transitions.

In the meeting, where one of the 'accusers' was attending, i asked them about their start (terrible) and which side of the course they picked (wrong side of persistent 15 degree) and out into the greater head-on current. I then showed how we fared against similar boats to us that was well sailed and went the right way - about the same as ratings suggested.  I showed this for two different events, up and down wind and the problem went away. The offending accuser sure looked like an idiot and backed right down.

 

[SailRacer]

This is all good info thanks.

packet of info we are working with contain info on crew experience, sail rotation, running rigging, winches and bottom prep.

There are 3 versions of the boat in the USA and not all regions indicate them the same so it makes it tough to make a case.

a graph might be detrimental as a large amount of the finishes had us ahead by a large amount.  Picking the correct side to start and keeping clear air have worked well for us.  No other choice here but PHRF.

I understand the premise of just going out and beat them on the water but I think this is a real learning process (good or bad).

getting another boat is not an option as owner plans to be buried in it.

Sail Safe!

 

[Parma]

There is no "one size fits all" approach.

I was going to post a response but quickly realized an intelligent response would take more than an hour.

Years ago, realizing that everyone unfamiliar with what really happens on a PH board were making presentations that were besides the point and neglecting other good available arguments,  I was going to put together a youtube video on do's and don't's, approaches and directions, for PH ratings but never did it.

 

[ryley]

so if you're beating the rest of your fleet by a large amount, is your argument that you're just that good and the rest of your competitors are just that bad? Because most PHRF area bylaws state that a boat's rating *should* be examined on a regular basis to see if it is still fair. is it possible the rating needs an adjustment? 

 

[Parma]

Oh boy, lots of bad points, good points, besides the points and also counterpoints to just about everything said, except Miffy's comment.

The very best thing you can do is find the Past Fleet Chair and ask him or her to make the presentation for you.

 

[premiumunleaded]

One thing I have suggested to two sailors, one being a guy who thinks another guy's boat is rated too high, is to switch boats for a race or two.  Being a PHRF governor, I have never had anyone ever take up this suggestion.  Often the guy who is complaining, just isn't that good a racer, and this guy (or gal)  in his/her cross-hairs is a great sailor, with a great crew and well prepared boat.  The reason I believe, the less competent sailor never takes up this challenge is that in his heart-of-hearts, he knows he will get his ass kick by the better sailor in his own boat....how humiliating. Funny...in college one-design racing, boat rotations are done after every race or every other race, so it is not a totally absurd approach. 

I must say that PHRF has a pretty good data base of boat performance for stock and not so stock designs. And that there are not a very large percentage of custom or massively adulterated designs out there. That said, sailing location is also always a consideration.  All I can say in PHRF's defense is we all try very hard to level the playing field for no money.  We are all volunteers and do not want to see anyone screwed. This will not help participation.  Please keep this in mind when going in front of the board. 

 

[Crash]

Still would help to know what region, and which Mull design it is your racing...

 

[TJSoCal]

so if you're beating the rest of your fleet by a large amount, is your argument that you're just that good and the rest of your competitors are just that bad? Because most PHRF area bylaws state that a boat's rating *should* be examined on a regular basis to see if it is still fair. is it possible the rating needs an adjustment? 

Yeah, I would offer that if you're almost always winning and usually by a lot, even if it's because you're just better, smarter sailors, maybe the better part of valor would be to accept a rating hit. Then challenge yourself and your crew to work hard to keep winning with the new rating.

In my view non-competitive racing is fairly boring even for the winners and discouraging for other competitors who are sailing their best (even if their best is not that good) and finding it impossible to win.

 

[Parma]

in my experience top, pro sailors on a well prepared and technically segregated boat who have been sailing together for a long time on the same boat have a 20 second rating cushion.