Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts

[DDW]

Newfoundland is like this today,  everywhere, even the capital town.

Was given rides and loaned cars/trucks several times by complete strangers in Newfoundland. In PEI, I had multiple offers of free loaner cars from strangers, and had my pick. Even in Georgetown, VI, the guy who owned the espresso shop lent me his truck to drive 30 miles to the Fedex office when no rental cars were available due to the snowstorm. Not many places like that in the US.

In one place in Newfoundland (Ramea), we caused a minor political crisis as there was a gale forecast for two days and one helpful faction thought we should tie up to the float, the other helpful faction insisted we would be better off on the fishing pier. It was a heated argument. Whatever we decided if felt like we were choosing sides. 

 

[estarzinger]

 Providing you follow the requirements ( not onerous) then entry is prompt and courteous.  There are no complaints about that from cruisers.

No, certainly not true in our case. They seemed bored and wanted to spend all of a day threatening us with jail time for various things we had not done. And they did not seem to be following their own rules and procedures - they told us we had to sit on the dock while they searched/dismantled the boat (which I was later told was wrong that they had to allow one of us to watch) and they brought a pvc pipe of Heroin on board without asking or notifying me (just two examples of a full day of rather unpleasant experiences).  I might note that we have zero/nada criminal records or encounters with criminal systems or drugs - there is no way we were on anyone's 'watch list'.  They did not seem to believe that we had sailed non-stop from Chile, accused us several times of stopping somewhere in Indonesia - despite us showing them our log books and charts and ofc passports. I could go on - it was systematic, both in Fremantle and as I said in Hobart.

But where complications commonly arise is from not giving an exit visa enough leeway. Then and trying to get extra time on the end on the maximum stay for visa category. 

No, that part actually was all straight forward an no problem - I seem to remember that we needed chest x-rays or something like that, but it was all explained and laid out fine.  Seemed to be a different group of officials.

I have cleared in and out of many countries many times and this stood out quite clearly as distinctively aggressive and unpleasant and poorly managed. 

 

[olaf hart]

Doesn’t sound pleasant Estar, but anyone who says they travelled to Oz direct from South America on a sailboat is going to get the full body search. Lots of examples of tons of illegal substances intercepted on private yachts around here.

Mind you, I don’t hear anyone complaining about tight borders at the moment..

 

[MikeJohns]

No, certainly not true in our case. They seemed bored and wanted to spend all of a day threatening us with jail time for various things we had not done..........

I'm sorry to hear it. You must have ticked the high risk box and got them excited. If it's any consolation the yachties often caught with a ton of drugs stashed in the boat have clean records. 

Nowadays from the AIS data collected by satellite they actually know where you've been before you clear in, providing you have AIS . Another advantage of AIS.

 

[Zonker]

We arrived in Bundaberg in 2011 - about a week after a yacht had come in full of coke. 7 boats were clearing in that day and we were last at 7:30 at night. We all got the full treatment, but because they were tired they kind of ignored something that looked like a potato under the stove we couldn't get out for inspection. 

They were "OK" but not anything at all friendly.

Then I got pulled over in Brisbane with our dinghy by water cops. They wanted to know why I didn't have any registration on my dinghy. I explained "visiting yacht, Canadian, don't have to have registration for your dinghy blah blah". They said "pretty sure you do". The Australian laws (I had previously researched) said visiting vessels were exempt. So they didn't know their own laws and wanted to give me a ticket. Finally they relented and went on their way.

Friend got a ticket in Mooloolaba in their dinghy. No lights at dusk (not black; shortly after sunset). Owner wasn't driving the dinghy; a friend was. Friend got a $200 ticket. Owner got a $200 ticket for allowing the friend to drive. Sigh.

I used to ride my bike to work in Brisbane (worst country in my experience for bikes; drivers were actively hostile). One day I forgot my helmet on the boat; kid was late to school, didn't have time to go back and get it. So for one day in 2 years I didn't have my helmet. Got a $120 ticket on the spot. Cop wouldn't even listen to my excuse that hey I'm a middle aged guy who values his head and this was a one off event. 

So yeah, I wasn't impressed with aussie officialdom either.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Our first trip to Aust (pre 9-11) was marvelous, everyone wonderful. And we put it on our 'must go back next time' list.

Our 2nd trip (well post 9-11) the everyday bloke was generally good but a little more standoffish. I could see how the local folks in Tasi might well be on the more helpful side of things, we just were in great shape and did not been much - but the big change was in your officials - they had turned into world class jack-booted militaristic jerks.  Including those in Hobart.  I try really really really hard to follow local laws and regulations to the letter, and I typically get on really well with officials because its pretty obvious I am trying to be respectful and law abiding, but we had just consistently horrible time with yours - perhaps only equaled all around the world with the seppo officials, which is definitely not good company to be in. It is not on our current 'must go back list'. And perhaps that's just fine with Australians.

I'm sure you are marvelously welcoming. And Tasi was a delightful place to explore. So, sorry for bringing the dark cloud, but it just was what it was.

Rest assured it's not just you. They do it to us as well. Rules changed a lot after 9/11 and the paranoia went through the roof.

They used to make us clear through customs & immigration after a Southern Ocean voyage. PITA. I had the entire ship to smuggle shit in, assuming there was anything to smuggle, but they still insisted we muster and undergo inspection.

One time I was still working aboard, got paged 3 times to clear so wandered down carrying my backpack and passport. The customs guy was totally unbelieving that it was all I had. Told them the rest of my gear was official Govt issue and was still on the ship. In the end they gave up.

I turned right around & went back up the boarding bridge and went back to work. The looks as I went the 'wrong' way were amusing. I wasn't actually planning on getting off for another day or 2, we had to strip off a shit-ton of gear & data before the ship left port again and I'd already arranged with the captain to sleep aboard.

So yeah, totally believable that you came across some dickheads. They renamed the organisation to Border Force. I call them Border Farce.

Mind you they've still a long, long way to go to reach the nadir that's the US Border Farce. I used to work out of Tucson for a while, regularly transited through LAX. Even Jakarta was a nicer experience.

FKT

 

[olaf hart]

Just don’t make the mistake of standing in the same line as passengers from Nicaragua at LAX…

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Just don’t make the mistake of standing in the same line as passengers from Nicaragua at LAX…

If I never transit LAX again - or any other US airport for that matter - that's just fine with me. I have no plans to ever return to the USA.

FKT

 

[estarzinger]

 I had the entire ship to smuggle shit in,

So yeah, totally believable that you came across some dickheads.

In Fremantle my wife asked one of the guys how they searched the ships which were coming in the port when it took them this long to do us. And he said they did not much bother because there was no way they could effectively search them.  I was thinking at that moment that their search of our vessel was totally ineffective - because they never looked/inspected the 4 places where I would have hidden something (crash box in bow, integral welded in water and fuel tanks, 20lbs propane bottles, and huge hollow space in top half of 22m mast).

In Hobart we had another 'we could put you in jail for 10 years' moment - they insisted that when I sailed from one Australian state to another I had to directly go non-stop to an official check in Harbour and check in almost as if I was entering the country fresh. So they were pissed that I had stopped in Port Davy and lots of other places before I got to Hobart.  I pointed out that my cruising permit (which we had on the table right in front of us) said nothing like this, and that the officials in Perth had said nothing like this, and that I had talked with a fisheries patrol vessel in Port Davy and they knew what my route had been and they said nothing like this.  They grudgingly let it go - I never know if it was an actual rule which I violated or if they were mistaken about it.

Anyway - sorry about the thread drift - back to desirable vessels.

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

huge hollow space in top half of 22m mast).

Watertight flotation compartment in the mast?  Cool idea. Is that a “thing” on the IMOCAs, etc?  I’ve never heard of this before.  (I presume you never had the misfortune of putting the mast in the water to try it out!)

 

[estarzinger]

Watertight flotation compartment in the mast?  Cool idea. Is that a “thing” on the IMOCAs, etc?  I’ve never heard of this before.  (I presume you never had the misfortune of putting the mast in the water to try it out!)

we have had the mast get wet near 90 degrees, but never fully immersed. This used to be 'a thing', I am a little out of touch with the cutting edge but I suspect no serious race boats today want to take the weight aloft penalty.

 

[toddster]

I've been "randomly" selected for enhanced searches more times than random chance would suggest. In one case right down to squeezing out the toothpaste tube and slitting a jacket seam.  I suspect it mostly had to do with having long hair and wearing sandals.  *sigh* one of which won't be a problem any more...

 

[toddster]

Watertight flotation compartment in the mast?  Cool idea. Is that a “thing” on the IMOCAs, etc?  I’ve never heard of this before.  (I presume you never had the misfortune of putting the mast in the water to try it out!)

Definitely a Hobie cat thing.  If your mast isn't watertight, better get that cat flipped back up before it fills with water! It makes the difference between a tip-over and a full inversion.

 

[slug zitski]

I've been "randomly" selected for enhanced searches more times than random chance would suggest. In one case right down to squeezing out the toothpaste tube and slitting a jacket seam.  I suspect it mostly had to do with having long hair and wearing sandals.  *sigh* one of which won't be a problem any more...

A few years ago , Off the coast of Maine , on a Swiss flagged 75 footer , we got stopped and the inspector made us take all the bagged sails out of the forepeak and unpack them on deck 

it was a bad day 

in general when sailing in US watered with a foreign Flag you will constantly be harassed at both anchor and when underway 

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

I've been "randomly" selected for enhanced searches more times than random chance would suggest. In one case right down to squeezing out the toothpaste tube and slitting a jacket seam.  I suspect it mostly had to do with having long hair and wearing sandals.  *sigh* one of which won't be a problem any more...

That happened to me on the Amtrak coming down from university in Montréal once, headed back down to DC.  US border dude rifles through my bag.  Finds a metal tin of Chinese jasmin tea.  (I think I must’ve been moving back home for the summer between years of school, having vacated my apartment.) “Oh, so where is the marijuana, son?” —combing through the tea leaves in the tin with his ball point pen.  (For the record, I don’t like pot, just doesn’t agree with me, and I certainly wouldn’t cross a border with anything illegal.  I suspect my long hair and 20-something attitude at the time tipped me off as “subversive” to the armed US guards. Lesson learned - dress like a “patriot” if you want to be subversive ) 

 

[estarzinger]

 dress like a “patriot” if you want to be subversive ) 

My father in law used to be the last link in a draft dodger railroad to canada. He would put them in the trunk and drive  across the border.  He was an ex-navy flyer, crew cut, everything squared away, and senior guy in small local Masonic lodge to boot, so no-one ever gave him even a second glance. He used to be able to make speeding tickets go away by shaking hands with the officers.  Something very Sun Tzu about it all.

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

My father in law used to be the last link in a draft dodger railroad to canada. He would put them in the trunk and drive  across the border.  He was an ex-navy flyer, crew cut, everything squared away, and senior guy in small local Masonic lodge to boot, so no-one ever gave him even a second glance. He used to be able to make speeding tickets go away by shaking hands with the officers.  Something very Sun Tzu about it all.

What can I say - LOL!  Take it to PA . (I had a pony tail then, not messy but very GQ-styled a la Fabio of the early ‘90s.  Learned that lesson - no long hair at the border  )

(Unless you’re actually Fabio in your early ‘90s heartthrob prime... [thread drift alert] )

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

Definitely a Hobie cat thing.  If your mast isn't watertight, better get that cat flipped back up before it fills with water! It makes the difference between a tip-over and a full inversion.

For sure a thing for vessels with positive inverted stability (is that what’s it’s called?).  But I never would’ve thought for a vessel as large as Estar’s (47’) and such a tall mast.  Interesting concept - obviously designed for SO passages where “all bets are off”.  My boat has a (theoretically) watertight main hatch, so could (theoretically) withstand some immersion.  Mast is well stayed (two backstays and inner forestay), but alas  is deck stepped.

@estarzinger Evans - I recall you also saying somewhere above that Hawk’s mast was designed or set up such that if you did lose the rig in a knockdown, you’d theoretically have a good stump let left over, i.e., to facilitate a reasonable jury rig.  I haven’t thought through jury rigs - seems like a damn good thing to at least think through (which would cover everything from basic lashing strategies (like JL VDH and his [possibly illicit, b/c it was a race rules-prohibited modern material?] use of Spectra as a lashing near/at his spreaders in the last GGR race, through full on jury rig spars and steering strategies.

Fascinating and very practical topic unto itself.  I wonder if anyone has ever written a book on the topic of jury rigs stuff (a la David Burch’s excellent book on jury rig nav solutions (titled “Emergency Navigation”) ?

 

[estarzinger]

Hawk’s mast was designed or set up such that if you did lose the rig in a knockdown, you’d theoretically have a good stump let left over

 anyone has ever written a book on the topic of jury rigs 

yea, we had a sleeve inside from below the partners up to just above the gooseneck and then tapered for a ways further - hoped it would snap off somewhere above the sleeve. If the boom was still there it was designed so we could hoist the boom vertical and get a reasonably decent mast (Ellen did this when she dismasted her big cat).  If the boom was gone we would need to lash the pole on.

Speaking of Ellen's dismasting, we were in the same ocean as her, going the same way, and after her dismasting I was hoping we could sail up to her and offer help  but it was then hmmm a bit discouraging to see that they were still doing like 30% faster speed than us with our full mast and sails.

There have certainly been articles on jury rigs - yachting monthly did one for instance (in their quite fun 'crash test dummies' series).  I dont believe I have seen a book.

 

[Autonomous]

So I just put down a deposit on a boat with free standing, water tight spars. 

Not sure it puts me in the club though.

https://www.ghboats.com/our-boats/17-salish-voyager/