DH spin retrieval

solosailor

Super Anarchist
4,217
915
San Francisco Bay
Anybody have any suggestions for designing/configuring a double handed spinn retrieval system? 33' asymetric boat, frac rig but MH kites. There are lots of options but anything applicable purely to a DH situation that I'm not thinking about?
No gizzmos needed on a boat that size. Go deeper, grab the foot, blow the tack, gather, blow a lot of halyard, gather/stuff, repeat.
 

Wet Spreaders

Super Anarchist
2,511
300
SF Bay
I have a snuffer, but I don't always use it. Either way, I douse through the cabin.

1 - Snuffer method. I have the snuffer line lead to a double block with becket. I tie the tackline on to the bottom of the block and the tack of the kite to the becket. The furling line acts as furler/de-furler when pulled one at a time, and as the retrieval line when pulled together. The douse process is to blow sheet, furl, blow pole, blow tack, retrieve tack, gather foot, hold the mouth of the sock over the cabin and blow the halyard.

2 - Free method. Drive deep. Blow pole, blow tack, grab lazy or active sheet - whichever I can reach. Gather foot. Stuff down the cabin. Blow halyard and work like crazy to keep as much on the boat as possible. Usually the bulk of the kite is stalled at the back of the main and comes onto the boat. Sometimes the head falls in the water. Pull head out of the water - does not seem to be a big deal or particularly dangerous, although I'd probably stand on the halyard to modulate the drop if the wind was up.

 

atwinda

Anarchist
788
237
Anybody have any suggestions for designing/configuring a double handed spinn retrieval system? 33' asymetric boat, frac rig but MH kites. There are lots of options but anything applicable purely to a DH situation that I'm not thinking about?
You have a 10r- the kites on those are toys. You can actually reach the end of the sprit from sitting on the pulpit (I know, I've done it). Setup for a letter box, and reach out with a fid and pop the tylaska. No special tools Martin breakers required.

Are you ever going to be able to have a decent go at the other 10r in San Diego, or did you give up?

 

atwinda

Anarchist
788
237
I can't find a Spinlock remote trigger fid but I can find plugs. Same things?
http://www.tylaska.com/plugfid.html I don't know about spinlock specifically, but these are the remote fids I have used with mostly success. They can be tricky to feed out without opening the tylaska, and also a bit worry-some when you plug the bow sprit into a wave.

The "real" solution are tylaska's modified by a rigshop in San Diego called rig works. They add a remote trip mechanism to them which has a small eye spliced into it. You can either attach another line (via wichard clip) to it on a "shuttle" so it goes out to the end of the sprit with the tack line on launch, or go out to the end of the sprit and clip the wichard on after the kite is set. You'll see these on most of the vor boats. I generally don't set them with the kite unless it's rough sea state and I don't want to get put through a wave at the end of the sprit. If it's calm, I set without it, and don't hook it up until we need to peel/letterbox/sea picks up.

 
Anybody have any suggestions for designing/configuring a double handed spinn retrieval system? 33' asymetric boat, frac rig but MH kites. There are lots of options but anything applicable purely to a DH situation that I'm not thinking about?
You have a 10r- the kites on those are toys. You can actually reach the end of the sprit from sitting on the pulpit (I know, I've done it). Setup for a letter box, and reach out with a fid and pop the tylaska. No special tools Martin breakers required.

Are you ever going to be able to have a decent go at the other 10r in San Diego, or did you give up?
I'm probably going to set up a tylaska according to Wun Hung's suggestion for racing but may want a sock for just Julie & myself daysailing: she's pretty small, easily intimidated & sailing is not her strong suit.

Give up? Never. Not in my vocab. But also no time for a serious "campaign" right now: if my time was my own I'd be all over it. In the meantime I'm going for simple distance races like the BR, little Ensenada etc to minimize the logistical demands of a multiple crew structured race program, unless someone wants to take over those duties for me. Would be tough to knock those guys down though, anyway, but worth the journey.

I saw on YW that Barrett has sold the 10R out of SB, been meaning to call him to find out if it's coming to SD; maybe try to get my own(1), Panache(2), the SB boat(3), the LB boat(4) & The Dana Pt(5) Boat all into the BR. Right now it's just me & Dana Point.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

markvannote

Member
376
27
Newport, RI
I can't find a Spinlock remote trigger fid but I can find plugs. Same things?
http://www.tylaska.com/plugfid.html I don't know about spinlock specifically, but these are the remote fids I have used with mostly success. They can be tricky to feed out without opening the tylaska, and also a bit worry-some when you plug the bow sprit into a wave.

The "real" solution are tylaska's modified by a rigshop in San Diego called rig works. They add a remote trip mechanism to them which has a small eye spliced into it. You can either attach another line (via wichard clip) to it on a "shuttle" so it goes out to the end of the sprit with the tack line on launch, or go out to the end of the sprit and clip the wichard on after the kite is set. You'll see these on most of the vor boats. I generally don't set them with the kite unless it's rough sea state and I don't want to get put through a wave at the end of the sprit. If it's calm, I set without it, and don't hook it up until we need to peel/letterbox/sea picks up.
Just so no one tears their hair out looking for it, the smallest shackle Rigworks modifies is the T20. I spoke with Ray during the summer and they have no plan to go any smaller.

We have a fairly home-made setup for martin-breakers on the Cookson 50 which I can try to get pictures of which would be a whole lot better than trying to type it out. I think you will find that everyone does it a little differently. There were three fifty footers and a forty-five on the same dock before the feeder race and I think every boat had a different setup.

Thanks.

Mark

 

HamishMacdonald

Super Anarchist
2,675
0
I have used a setup before with a spectra loop permenantly spliced through the trip ring of the tylaskska. Then there's a small block near the end of the pole and you run a thin spectra line from the pushpit, through this block and back to the pushpit (there's a small tylaska on the end). If you're anticipating needing the martin breaker system, you clip the tylaska to the spectra loop when setting up the kite (or obviously can go to the end of the pole if you decide to use it when the kite's already up). Some systems I've seen have a bit of elastic running down the deck to keep the spectra tight (but obviously not too tight...), otherwise you can just tie the slack away somewhere.

When sailing you just need to make sure there's enough length in the thin spectra that it won't accidentally spike the clew. There is potential for it to snarl and cause fuckups, which is why you may want to only attach it late on, especially if you can reach your clew without shimmying along a long bowsprit. To drop, there's two options:

1. Give the thin line a good yank, and the clew should be spiked off.

2. Tie the line off to a stanchion base etc. so that there's about 6in of slack in the system. Go back to the pit and ease the tackline 7in...

The most common time for this system to fuckup is just after a hoist, when the tack might be twisted and hence spin around. For this reason you need to make sure there's loads of slack in the tripline and then be prepared to undo the shackle and sort out the mess afterwards. Or just clip the tripline on after the hoist.

Final point: after the drop, the tripline's also pretty convenient for pulling the now empty tackline back onboard without going to the end of a bowsprit.

 

HamishMacdonald

Super Anarchist
2,675
0
I have used a setup before with a spectra loop permenantly spliced through the trip ring of the tylaskska. Then there's a small block near the end of the pole and you run a thin spectra line from the pushpit, through this block and back to the pushpit (there's a small tylaska on the end). If you're anticipating needing the martin breaker system, you clip the tylaska to the spectra loop when setting up the kite (or obviously can go to the end of the pole if you decide to use it when the kite's already up). Some systems I've seen have a bit of elastic running down the deck to keep the spectra tight (but obviously not too tight...), otherwise you can just tie the slack away somewhere.

When sailing you just need to make sure there's enough length in the thin spectra that it won't accidentally spike the clew. There is potential for it to snarl and cause fuckups, which is why you may want to only attach it late on, especially if you can reach your clew without shimmying along a long bowsprit. To drop, there's two options:

1. Give the thin line a good yank, and the clew should be spiked off.

2. Tie the line off to a stanchion base etc. so that there's about 6in of slack in the system. Go back to the pit and ease the tackline 7in...

The most common time for this system to fuckup is just after a hoist, when the tack might be twisted and hence spin around. For this reason you need to make sure there's loads of slack in the tripline and then be prepared to undo the shackle and sort out the mess afterwards. Or just clip the tripline on after the hoist.

Final point: after the drop, the tripline's also pretty convenient for pulling the now empty tackline back onboard without going to the end of a bowsprit.

 

Chris in Santa Cruz CA

Super Anarchist
6,507
1,472
earths surface
I have used a setup before with a spectra loop permenantly spliced through the trip ring of the tylaskska. Then there's a small block near the end of the pole and you run a thin spectra line from the pushpit, through this block and back to the pushpit (there's a small tylaska on the end). If you're anticipating needing the martin breaker system, you clip the tylaska to the spectra loop when setting up the kite (or obviously can go to the end of the pole if you decide to use it when the kite's already up). Some systems I've seen have a bit of elastic running down the deck to keep the spectra tight (but obviously not too tight...), otherwise you can just tie the slack away somewhere.

When sailing you just need to make sure there's enough length in the thin spectra that it won't accidentally spike the clew. There is potential for it to snarl and cause fuckups, which is why you may want to only attach it late on, especially if you can reach your clew without shimmying along a long bowsprit. To drop, there's two options:

1. Give the thin line a good yank, and the clew should be spiked off.

2. Tie the line off to a stanchion base etc. so that there's about 6in of slack in the system. Go back to the pit and ease the tackline 7in...

The most common time for this system to fuckup is just after a hoist, when the tack might be twisted and hence spin around. For this reason you need to make sure there's loads of slack in the tripline and then be prepared to undo the shackle and sort out the mess afterwards. Or just clip the tripline on after the hoist.

Final point: after the drop, the tripline's also pretty convenient for pulling the now empty tackline back onboard without going to the end of a bowsprit.

I suppose a small rubber band or two on the guy and you could capture the tackline in such a way as to be able to retrieve it after the hoist and minimize the chances of it cocking things up on the hoist. Packing the chute properly would also minimize this I would think.

Are most DH or SH folks launching out of the companion way or repacking in a turtle?

 
I repack & launch from the rail; it's a part of the fun of sailing. Relied on someone elses pack once and it was twisted about 4 times. iritating but gave me some good practice re: dropping a chute & resetting.

 
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Catamount

Super Anarchist
Yep, I also run the tapes and repack down below, and launch from the rail. But I'm doing distance races, not W/L, so it's not like I'm going to be resetting the chute anytime soon -- stuffing the sail down the companionway and leaving it until after getting the boat set on the next leg and sorting the deck is SOP.

 

Chris in Santa Cruz CA

Super Anarchist
6,507
1,472
earths surface
Thanks. One of most informative threads in a while for me anyway. Can't wait to pull a line from the companionway and release the tack. Already have the right shackles on the chute.

On another note my chute came with a monstrous swivel on the head. Very heavy. The boat was sailed short handed before I got it. Is there a reason to have a heavy weight there?

 

pogen

Super Anarchist
5,092
8
SF Bay
Bump.

We have been practicing our spin handling, dousing with the jib raised and in lighter air just dousing with no jib up. If we are going to run deep before blowing the guy and letterboxing/companionway drop, how much does the jib help to blank out and collapse the spin, especially in bigger wind??

Usually we would raise the jib first before dousing the spin but there are times when it might not be possible.

We have already given up on the sock idea!

 

gonzo377

Member
229
1
Anybody have any experience with a top down furler like karver's. We do long distance races and repacking and rerunning everything at 3 in the morning after a letterbox gets old fast.

 

puddin

Anarchist
884
0
Good topic.

If people have good ideas or tricks for DH spin retrieval on mid-size symmetric kite boats, I'd like to hear about them!

Olson 34 right? Over 15 kts, letter box. We rig guys as well if it's going to blow 15-18+... just makes gybing and take downs easier. Under 15 kts, standard. We take down on the sheet behind the main into the forepeak if sea state isn't an issue. Helm controls the halyard on the drop. Pretty easy. The kites aren't large enough to cause a lot of problems. Be methodical, run halyards, sheet, guys, etc... before dousing. I'm guessing this is what you're already doing.

 
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MSA

Anarchist
998
0
Perth
Top Down furlers are great and work. You need a good Torsion line though, some don't cut it.

Stronger wind gybes are easy too. Furl, gybe main, unfurl

 


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