Dinghys on very small keelboats

[Vaeredil]

So, say you're on a budget and want to go "small, simple, and now". You get something like a Flicka 20,  for example, and head off down the coast to Mexico. What do you use as a dinghy?

Is there even room on the fore deck for a hard dinghy? If you make a cover can you tow one (always the downwind problem, one of my boats had a nice nick on the starboard side from a near miss, hard dinghy surfing down a wave)

Do you put up with stowage for an inflatable/RIB?

Perhaps a kayak? (Used a 14 foot as a dinghy before and the load carrying ability was not there, plus getting into it from the cockpit required balance I might not have in a few years)

SUP?

 

[Zonker]

You get something like a Flicka 20,  for example, and head off down the coast to Mexico

You are stupid if you cruise on one. OK, I do know a COUPLE who were cruising in a Flicka. They had a pretty small inflatable as a dinghy lashed to the deck. No room for it elsewhere.

 

[Vaeredil]

You are stupid if you cruise on one. OK, I do know a COUPLE who were cruising in a Flicka. They had a pretty small inflatable as a dinghy lashed to the deck. No room for it elsewhere.

Yeah, so I've been told. Is it better if I want to sail in some seriously hairy places but can't afford a bigger boat? I want to hear more about this couple, that really is crazy. Make or break a relationship real fast!

Dinghy on deck makes sense. Would prefer a hard dinghy though, never trust inflatables with how hard they are to row :/ 

 

[fastyacht]

Yeah, so I've been told. Is it better if I want to sail in some seriously hairy places but can't afford a bigger boat? I want to hear more about this couple, that really is crazy. Make or break a relationship real fast!

Dinghy on deck makes sense. Would prefer a hard dinghy though, never trust inflatables with how hard they are to row :/ 

I have an idea. Measure and play with carboard on your foredeck. See how big you can make a dinghy that will fit there. Then bring the results here and we'll draw it up.

Won't take long.

 

[Sail4beer]

And nice avatar, Fast!

 

[Vaeredil]

I have an idea. Measure and play with carboard on your foredeck. See how big you can make a dinghy that will fit there. Then bring the results here and we'll draw it up.

Won't take long.

Just got to buy the Flicka first...

I'm going to take you up on that offer some day!

 

[Vaeredil]

And nice avatar, Fast!

 

[Zonker]

Actually a nesting dinghy would fit easily. Here's my FB11 scaled accurately (about 5'-9" nested) on the foredeck of a Flicka 20. 11' long when assembled.

We owned a 28' LOD cutter with a similar layout. We stowed jerry cans in front of the coachroof under the dinghy. Unless it was really really rough we could crack the fwd hatch for ventilation.

The guy on the Flicka was about 6'-2" and his wife was average. They did seem to manage but their speed was usually around 3.5 knots. Painfully slow.

 

[Zonker]

Kind of makes getting to the bow awkward though. You need the special 10' narrow stern version. The green outline is the aft part of the hull; magenta is the bow.

 

[Vaeredil]

Actually a nesting dinghy would fit easily. Here's my FB11 scaled accurately (about 5'-9" nested) on the foredeck of a Flicka 20. 11' long when assembled.

We owned a 28' LOD cutter with a similar layout. We stowed jerry cans in front of the coachroof under the dinghy. Unless it was really really rough we could crack the fwd hatch for ventilation.

The guy on the Flicka was about 6'-2" and his wife was average. They did seem to manage but their speed was usually around 3.5 knots. Painfully slow.

Damn, thanks for the detective work. Had a peek at the FB11 plans and that doesn't even look out of my skill range. Might have to think about building one, seems like it would work for almost any boat I ended up with.

I'm 6'2" myself, so that's honestly encouraging to hear. A big deal is made about standing headroom, but looking at my options there I'd have to go up to about 32-34 feet to get that kind of headroom in an actually seaworthy, solid boat. If I just wanted to bomb around on coastal hops I'd have more options but I seriously lust for some serious sailing. 

Thanks for the anecdotes and help!

 

[Vaeredil]

Kind of makes getting to the bow awkward though. You need the special 10' narrow stern version. The green outline is the aft part of the hull; magenta is the bow.

View attachment 366862

Is that narrow stern version something you modify yourself or is it there in the plans? Also taking a peek at some of the building posts for the fb11, looks like I'd have to make a few modifications to assemble it in the water (little difficult on the bow of a flicka)

Edit: @Zonker , just realized the FB11 is your design, looking through Jud's posts about his nesting dinghy build. That's cool as fuck.

 

[Schnappi]

Actually a nesting dinghy would fit easily. Here's my FB11 scaled accurately (about 5'-9" nested) on the foredeck of a Flicka 20. 11' long when assembled.

We owned a 28' LOD cutter with a similar layout. We stowed jerry cans in front of the coachroof under the dinghy. Unless it was really really rough we could crack the fwd hatch for ventilation.

The guy on the Flicka was about 6'-2" and his wife was average. They did seem to manage but their speed was usually around 3.5 knots. Painfully slow.

View attachment 366859

I don't know what her appearance has to do with anything.  

 

[Zonker]

Yes, that was my first S&G design. It was our daily driver for 8 years and I commuted with it in the ice in Annapolis for one winter.

No, sorry the narrow stern version was a joke. But a slightly custom version would be simple enough these days. I did the FB11 in Fastship (ship specialized CAD program).

With Rhino that I use now developable shapes are easier.  

I never assembled it in the water more than once to see if it could be done. Sit it transversely on the cabintop, with ends supported by the lifelines. Bolt together (4 bolts with wing nuts), pick up and throw in the water.

 

[SloopJonB]

You are stupid if you cruise on one. OK, I do know a COUPLE who were cruising in a Flicka. They had a pretty small inflatable as a dinghy lashed to the deck. No room for it elsewhere.

I've never understood the mentality behind those minimum big boats - or maybe it's maximum little boats?

There's one of them on my dock - maybe a Flicka or a PS24 - one of those kind of things. It is all done very high quality - bronze ports, heavy everything. Built like a Tayana 37 and its elk.

I'm sure you could buy a pretty sound 35' for what it would cost.

 

[VWAP]

So, say you're on a budget and want to go "small, simple, and now". You get something like a Flicka 20,  for example, and head off down the coast to Mexico. What do you use as a dinghy?

Is there even room on the fore deck for a hard dinghy? If you make a cover can you tow one (always the downwind problem, one of my boats had a nice nick on the starboard side from a near miss, hard dinghy surfing down a wave)

Do you put up with stowage for an inflatable/RIB?

Perhaps a kayak? (Used a 14 foot as a dinghy before and the load carrying ability was not there, plus getting into it from the cockpit required balance I might not have in a few years)

SUP?

go with the inflatables.

 

[Vaeredil]

Yes, that was my first S&G design. It was our daily driver for 8 years and I commuted with it in the ice in Annapolis for one winter.

No, sorry the narrow stern version was a joke. But a slightly custom version would be simple enough these days. I did the FB11 in Fastship (ship specialized CAD program).

With Rhino that I use now developable shapes are easier.  

I never assembled it in the water more than once to see if it could be done. Sit it transversely on the cabintop, with ends supported by the lifelines. Bolt together (4 bolts with wing nuts), pick up and throw in the water.

8 years is impressive, even for a sturdy dinghy and a workboat finish. Hold off on that custom version until I find a place to build here in Northern Ontario, though!  I'm very tempted to just go for it, assuming I can find a place to work. Pretty much any boat I buy is going to need a good dinghy, and I rarely see them sold with the hard rowing ones I prefer. That FB11 has some seriously good capacity, that one picture on your website with 4 people in it and still OK freeboard is pretty neat. I wonder if a version scaled a little down in all dimensions would be an interesting idea, considering max capacity would be a fit 24 year old and possibly a good looking girl. (or more likely, 3 big jugs of water and a 20lb bag of rice).  

As for assembling it on the bow, that does make sense. I can see myself doing something stupid and losing a wingnut ever other time I tried to assemble it in the water, anyhow. 

I've never understood the mentality behind those minimum big boats - or maybe it's maximum little boats?

There's one of them on my dock - maybe a Flicka or a PS24 - one of those kind of things. It is all done very high quality - bronze ports, heavy everything. Built like a Tayana 37 and its elk.

I'm sure you could buy a pretty sound 35' for what it would cost.

Not sure, got any suggestions for 19k Canadian? There's an apparently good condition Flicka on Denman for that, probably sell for 16 or so. It's mostly a running costs thing for me: Sure, I may be able to get a pretty sound 35', but it's much more likely to have a bunch of maintenance issues at that price, less likely to be as seaworthy, I can get an anchor of the proper weight for the Flicka for less than half the price, and when I do have to haul the 35' out it is going to cost a lot more for bottom paint, new sails, etc. 

I've been doing a lot of ruminating on the pros and cons, honestly. 506 days left until the little red circle on my calendar where I quit my job, and I'd like to stretch the savings I'll have by then as long as humanly possible. If it helps, I'd like to sail along the west coast to Alaska, possibly as far as the Aleutian Islands, and afterwards would be looking at maybe Hawaii or sailing south along the west coast of the Americas.  

Open to all suggestions, seriously. I really value the input I get from all of you. 

 

[fastyacht]

With Rhino that I use now developable shapes are easier.  

My favourite deevlopable program runs on DOS, (Nautilus). It's windows decscendant (ProSurf) is even more versatile. I find Rhino less effective for devloped surface design. But then again because I already had a great tool before rhino existed....maybe I didn't care to figure out how to use rhino for that. (I use rhino a lot--but not for true development).

 

[fastyacht]

I've never understood the mentality behind those minimum big boats - or maybe it's maximum little boats?

There's one of them on my dock - maybe a Flicka or a PS24 - one of those kind of things. It is all done very high quality - bronze ports, heavy everything. Built like a Tayana 37 and its elk.

I'm sure you could buy a pretty sound 35' for what it would cost.

Minimum big boat. It has all the disadvantages of a big boat: keel, draft, heavy ballast, inboard, etc. None of the advantages of a little boat (beachable, minimal ballast, outboard or no motor etc)

There was a time when people bought new boats. A 20 footer costs 12% of what a 40 footer costs---or something...

A friend of mine bought a 1980 35 footer of real caliber for $16,000 US a few years ago...

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I am not sure a Flicka 20 is a very cost effective way to "Go Simple Go Now", last I checked they went for a premium price for a really small boat. I think you are looking at $35K and up for one.

That said, here are a couple of ideas:

https://www.boatstogo.com/kayaks-sk396.asp

https://www.boatstogo.com/inflatable-boat-am290.asp

Both of these can be rolled up and packed away. I would not ever try and tow a dinghy in the open ocean, sooner or later the result will be a missing dinghy or worse.