Do Libertarians Still Exist?

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Punta Gorda FL
I get the perhaps incorrect impression that Libertarians folded into Tea Partyers who folded into Trumptards.
That's some interesting folding. Perhaps if you read some of those links back, you'd start to wonder what kind of Trumptard opposes the stupid trade war, the stupid wall, and the idiotic post-election lawsuits.

Those all seem to be pretty important Trumptardian issues to me, and dim as you might think them, they're able to detect opposition to their ideas.

Some people are not so bright and can't detect it.

 

BeSafe

Super Anarchist
7,841
1,188
 The current Roe V Wade shenanigans would seem to be their ultimate nightmare and one would think that would have them all out doing something.
FWIW, the generic libertarian is pro-choice.  Its not even a particular issue of contention, let alone a nightmare. 

https://www.lp.org/libertarians-abortion-is-a-matter-for-individual-conscience-not-public-decree/

“The Libertarian Party calls for an end to government persecution and prosecution of the women who choose abortions and of the medical personnel who assist them,” said Libertarian National Committee Chair Nicholas Sarwark. “We also call for an end to subsidies, an end to prescription requirements for contraception, and an end to restrictive demographic adoption policies. Those who truly want to reduce abortions should consider that a culture of freedom, persuasion, and real individual choice can accomplish far more than a culture of prohibition and punishment ever has.”

 
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Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
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Libertarians folded into Tea Partayers?  Please, that's like saying neoconservatives folded into financial conservatives after W the Stupid left office. That's like saying financial conservatives became social conservatives when a black financial conservative got elected president. You've got to remember that these are men of deeply held principles. You know, Republicans.

 
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Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
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Punta Gorda FL
Libertarians folded into Tea Partayers?  That's like saying neoconservatives folded into financial conservatives after W the Stupid left office. That's like saying financial conservatives became social conservatives when a black financial conservative got elected president. These are men of deeply held principles. You know, Republicans.
Well, there was a Tea Party Republican in Congress who became a Libertarian.

So how did the only Libertarian to ever serve in Congress vote on Trump's impeachment again? I forgot.
Doug seems to have forgotten the answer, if he indeed ever learned it, but it's Justin Amash and, just like any Trumpublican, he voted to impeach Trump.

 

Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
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New Oak City
Well, there was a Tea Party Republican in Congress who became a Libertarian.

Doug seems to have forgotten the answer, if he indeed ever learned it, but it's Justin Amash and, just like any Trumpublican, he voted to impeach Trump.
Amash voted for impeachment both times, the first time as an independent and the second as a Libertarian. He ran as and was elected as a Republican. He didn't stand for re-election as a Libertarian.

Since Shadow brought up abortion, where was Amash the Libertarian on the abortion spectrum? Speaking of an anti-abortion Fakebertarian, since you're a registered Ronulan, remind us how he voted on the endless AUMF?

 
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Jules

Super Anarchist
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Punta Gorda
I know PA will always have Tom, but outside of him, are there any more?

The Republican Party is currently the absolute worst nightmare I can imagine for an actual libertarian, yet I have seen nothing at all in the wider media world from them or about them?

Did they all explode in a cloud of cognitive dissonance or ?????????
Do truly patriotic Americans still exist?  You know, the ones who put country before party.

 

El Borracho

Sam’s friend
6,346
2,385
Pacific Rim
Would the libertarians be stoked about a new military force in Florida? Must be confusing. Nothing says big overbearing government quite like the military on street corners. But then again, it would appeal to their actual agenda of hate and revenge against everything that scares them.

 

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
41,203
8,106
Eastern NC
Amash voted for impeachment both times, the first time as an independent and the second as a Libertarian. He ran as and was elected as a Republican. He didn't stand for re-election as a Libertarian.

Since Shadow brought up abortion, where was Amash the Libertarian on the abortion spectrum? Speaking of an anti-abortion Fakebertarian, since you're a registered Ronulan, remind us how he voted on the endless AUMF?
And the Hon. Rand Paul, who keeps insisting he's a Libertarian when he's an eager trumpalo Republican?

Amash voting for impeachment isn't the ringing endorsement Tom thinks it is. Both impeachment cases were iron clad to any but a trumpalo.

- DSK

 

BeSafe

Super Anarchist
7,841
1,188
 https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/desantis-florida-adjutant-general-to-speak-in-pensacola/

It's actually not quite the same as the National guard.

“I’m going to be recommending in the budget $3.5 million to reestablish the Florida State Guard. The Florida State Guard will act as a civilian volunteer force that will have the ability to assist the national guard in state-specific emergencies,” DeSantis said. “This funding will support the necessary training and equipment, and other support functions for up to 200 members who can aid in response to hurricanes and other natural disasters and other state emergencies.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force

Turns out most states have them but about 1/2 (including Florida's) aren't active.  Apparently, the difference is that the state guard can't be 'nationalized' whereas the national guard can? 

I hadn't heard of it before today either.  Honestly, other than the Florida Man memes and Tom's trail cams, I know squat about Florida.  My sister in law is retiring to Pensacola next year so I'll probably go visit at some point.

I don't know if its an accurate quote but I chuckled at "The 20 military installations we have throughout Florida is an almost $100 billion impact supporting about 100 million jobs,”DeSantis said.   That's a LOT of jobs for a state of 21 million. 

 
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ShortForBob

Super Anarchist
33,864
2,557
Melbourne
We do have a Libertarian Party in Australia (unregistered ).

It's tiny and only founded 12 months ago (5th November 2020) though it does have older right wing roots.

I wonder how it's platform varies from the American Libertarian party. <_<

Australian platform

https://libertarianparty.org.au/platform

As libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals have ownership over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.

James Paul

Spokesperson

A student in the United States during the early stages of Ron Paul's 2008 Presidential run, James is an experienced campaigner and devoted libertarian. James is Australian born-and-bred and works as an Information Technology professional.

USA platform

https://www.lp.org/platform/

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.

 

El Borracho

Sam’s friend
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2,385
Pacific Rim
quod umbra said:
Yeah..... ummmm do not all states in the union have National Guard? I am not sure DeSantis has done anything except claim Florida's National Guard as Florida's.
Seems, and I confess to having not yet read much about this, that what DeSantis is doing is making Florida less dependent on the federal government in times of catastrophe. 
Is that a bad thing or a good thing??
Might be a good thing. But the official description reads “other emergencies”.  What might those be? Suspected socialists voting? Civil rights marches? An urgent need for intimidation by the governor? Federal enforcement of federal laws? Kinda suspicious. 

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
59,902
4,601
De Nile
We do have a Libertarian Party in Australia (unregistered ).

It's tiny and only founded 12 months ago (5th November 2020) though it does have older right wing roots.

I wonder how it's platform varies from the American Libertarian party. <_<

Australian platform

https://libertarianparty.org.au/platform

As libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals have ownership over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.

James Paul

Spokesperson

A student in the United States during the early stages of Ron Paul's 2008 Presidential run, James is an experienced campaigner and devoted libertarian. James is Australian born-and-bred and works as an Information Technology professional.

USA platform

https://www.lp.org/platform/

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.
Unregistered. Perfect!

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
65,964
10,973
Great Wet North
We do have a Libertarian Party in Australia (unregistered ).

It's tiny and only founded 12 months ago (5th November 2020) though it does have older right wing roots.

I wonder how it's platform varies from the American Libertarian party. <_<

Australian platform

https://libertarianparty.org.au/platform

As libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals have ownership over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.

James Paul

Spokesperson

A student in the United States during the early stages of Ron Paul's 2008 Presidential run, James is an experienced campaigner and devoted libertarian. James is Australian born-and-bred and works as an Information Technology professional.

USA platform

https://www.lp.org/platform/

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty: a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others.
So their fundamental philosophy is "Fuck you, I got mine"?

Sounds kinda familiar.

 

Se7en

Super Anarchist
1,234
461
Melbourne
So their fundamental philosophy is "Fuck you, I got mine"?
Not quite.

I will say I aspire to both Libertarian, and Anarchist ideals, while accepting that they cannot be achieved in this very imperfect world. For either to work would require a level of knowledge and understanding across all of society that is realisticually beyond what is possible for anyone.

A benevolent libertatian doesn't want the society posited in Atlas Shrugged. Rather, they would like a society where everyone has perfect knowledge of what is required by all facets of society, and chooses to contribute accordingly. So it's where the far right Libertarian meets the far left Anarchist - both would like a society where there is no compusion on people to act, but rather people act based on their belief that it is the right thing to do.

As an example, my inner Libertarian despises Jeff Bezos, whilst admiring Bill Gates. Gates built a vast fortune by selling something (mostly) new and valuable, whilst treating all his employees well. Microsoft has always been a great place to work, and employees do well financially whilst doing a jobe they enjoy. Bezos has simply driven cost out of a distribution network by exploiting his workers and a market position. Likewise Musk with Tesla, which has only survived based on government subsidies - a lot of money has flown from the pockets of a lot of people into Musks bank accounts.

The Libertarian view I aspire to does say that some people will have more than others - due to both luck and effort. But it also says that those with more will contribute more, however they will contribute as they choose. For instance, I would like to fund the police to protect life and property, but would not give them a cent to police drug use. I'd fund preventative medicine through the GP network but not heroic surgery to prolong life. I'd want all lawyers to get minimum wage only - our legal system is a parasite that mostly supports the rich. Other Libertarians would have other views, and hopefully it would result in a society in balance.

But to achieve all this - and to make resource decisions that support this philisophy - I would need to have a deep understanding of both needs in EVERY area, and real time funding. I concede this isn't possible, so I cannot be a libertarian.

I don't believe that everyone else is capable of this either, so nor can I be an anarchist. (plus I admit I'm too selfish to be live in anarchy)

 
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