Do Libertarians Still Exist?

[Saorsa]

Here is my big issue that overrides the smaller ones: Politics should not be a religion! No one "ism" has all the answers. I like to view communism, socialism, libertarianism, capitalism, democracy-ism, monarchism, elitism, populism, mercantilism, anarchism, and anything else you can throw in there as tools. You need the right tool for the job. Also as philosophies, each one can inform you about how to deal with a situation or perhaps serve as an example of what NOT to do.

None of these things work well when they run unchecked.

To be fair to libertarians and their ism, IMHO they are 100% correct in campaigning for pot to be legal and they are 100% correct in fighting against civil forfeiture. They go off the rails when they want heroin and meth to be legal as well.

Communism works well on a very small basis, like a family unit. Should 3 year-olds have to earn their keep or starve? Of course not, they get what they need and contribute what they can, probably finger-paint pictures to put on the fridge. This scheme runs off the rails if you try and run a country that way, as has been amply demonstrated.

Are politicians of whateverism off the rails when they say that they will not prosecute theft of items less than $1000?  Should the limit be index-linked?

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Are politicians of whateverism off the rails when they say that they will not prosecute theft of items less than $1000?  Should the limit be index-linked?

One would assume that if that is not a popular idea they would get voted out. Where is this going on? Maybe I need to steal a bunch of shit worth $999
* Isn't this really libertarian? Why should my tax dollars pay to guard your business? Hire your own security if you want to. This is how places like Somalia work, your stuff doesn't get stolen if you have the money to hire an army to guard it, otherwise fair game.

 

[Olsonist]

It's true that Amash goes against the LP party line on abortion. If your characterization of the LP position on sewerage is right (for the first time ever), then I disagree and would be happy to discuss it in the WOTUS thread.

But none of that has to do with the issue I asked about.

Rand Paul and Amash are on one side and Biden is on the other when the issue is drug war looting. So, without any distractions this time, can you explain to me why cops need to seize property from people who are not charged with a crime, then force those people to prove the property innocent? Also why the seizing agencies should get to keep the loo... oops... assets.

No, the subject of this thread is Do Libertarians Still Exist?

Joe Biden is not a libertarian. There's nothing about Joe Biden which will help answer that question. Asking about that would be like asking about Libertarian Party Presidential candidate Bob Barr's support for the War on Drugs except that Barr supposedly is a libertarian. Asking about that would be like asking about Libertarian Party Presidential candidate Gary Johnson who put people in prison for drugs before becoming a virgin except that Johnson supposedly is a libertarian.

You really should contemplate potholes and sewerage.

 

[Saorsa]

One would assume that if that is not a popular idea they would get voted out. Where is this going on? Maybe I need to steal a bunch of shit worth $999
* Isn't this really libertarian? Why should my tax dollars pay to guard your business? Hire your own security if you want to. This is how places like Somalia work, your stuff doesn't get stolen if you have the money to hire an army to guard it, otherwise fair game.

Not when you only have two parties.  It does appear that folks are beginning to get more than a little pissed off at lax enforcement.

We'll see.

BTW, we just had a court case in Kenosha where a couple of car lots got burnt out and hired some private security.  It worked out well.

 

[Raz'r]

Not when you only have two parties.  It does appear that folks are beginning to get more than a little pissed off at lax enforcement.

Fear is always a great selling point for a challenger. It works, because so many are fearful.

What this has to do with fauxbertarianism? Who knows? We know Soreass ain't a libertarian. He's a lifer civil servant who loves SS.

 

[Steam Flyer]

I did not attend public schools after 6th grade.
And I didn't say that government/public funding for schooling should be eliminated, I said public schools should be eliminated. Big difference that is lost on you and a few others.

If you want to live in a society that is >75% illiterate, then yeah. Sounds great.

- DSK

 

[Ishmael]

If you want to live in a society that is >75% illiterate, then yeah. Sounds great.

- DSK

Well, he's only 25% illiterate so it obviously works.

 

[Raz'r]

Finding an actual libertarian is as likely as being successful on a snipe hunt. 

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

To be fair to libertarians and their ism, IMHO they are 100% correct in campaigning for pot to be legal and they are 100% correct in fighting against civil forfeiture. They go off the rails when they want heroin and meth to be legal as well.

That's nice, but wouldn't we have to exist to gain your support in those things?

Actually, judging by your posts on those issues, I guess we don't, so thread thesis proven.

(We're still going to fight eminent domain buybacks, you know...)

 

[AJ Oliver]

I think maybe you should research SDF's before you comment any further on the roles they fulfill.

For y'all, those roles must include "standing by" as the authoritarians smash the republic. 

Don't you get that they were 100% serious ?? 

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

No, the subject of this thread is Do Libertarians Still Exist?

Joe Biden is not a libertarian. There's nothing about Joe Biden which will help answer that question.

I brought him up as an example of the opposite of a libertarian on civil asset forfeiture.

Opposition to drug war looting is the most libertarian thing I can think up about Rand Paul and Justin Amash has also sponsored legislation to reverse Biden's legacy on that issue.

Seems to me a pretty clear issue on which we have a difference of opinion. I still think the drug war looting is wrong.

So why are libertarians and people like Rand Paul, who sorta lean libertarian sometimes, wrong, and why is Joe Biden right on that issue?

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

  From the generally ignored thread on asset forfeiture:

Civil forfeiture preys on disadvantaged communities. Two-thirds of respondents were Black, 63% earned less than $50,000 annually, and 18% were unemployed. And forfeitures were clustered in predominantly minority and low-income areas.

Hmm... Just like the stupid drug war, eminent domain, and gun laws, these laws disproportionately target minorities.

That's why Black Lives Matter is so very active on all those issues.

 

[Olsonist]

I brought him up as an example of the opposite of a libertarian on civil asset forfeiture.

Opposition to drug war looting is the most libertarian thing I can think up about Rand Paul and Justin Amash has also sponsored legislation to reverse Biden's legacy on that issue.

Seems to me a pretty clear issue on which we have a difference of opinion. I still think the drug war looting is wrong.

So why are libertarians and people like Rand Paul, who sorta lean libertarian sometimes, wrong, and why is Joe Biden right on that issue?

Yes Tom, I notice that you want to ignore the Libertarian candidates for president who were drug warriors and concentrate on the Democratic President who isn't a libertarian.

Remember, you aren't introducing this topic. You are not making this argument de novo. You've been around since the Obama administration, since December 2008 at least.

Yes, I understand you want to blame the entire War on Drugs on Biden forgetting drug warriors like Republicans Nixon, Barr and Johnson I understand you want to blame civil forfeiture on Biden despite its its much much longer history. I understand you want to blame Obama for Fast and Furious despite its origins as Wide Receiver under Bush the Stupid. I get this.

I get this because, Tom, you're not a libertarian and so 'actual' libertarians are the last thing you want to talk about.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Yes, I understand you want to blame the entire War on Drugs on

the Reagan/Biden drug war looting program

Just a little reality injection. You informed me of Nixon's involvement in the drug war several years too late, as I showed in the stupid drug war thread.

I'm well aware that Biden's co-author was Strom Thurmond and that Senator Sessions singled out Biden for praise on the asset forfeiture issue. TeamR deserves most of the blame for drug war looting, but they couldn't have done it without blessed bipartisan unity. Biden's support was crucial.

As for Bob Barr, I agree he was not the most credible libertarian candidate, but he and President Clinton did at least try to rein in drug war looting in 2000 and I've praised him for changing his mind on that issue, something that distinguishes him from Biden, who has never said a bad word about drug war looting.

 

[Olsonist]

Just a little reality injection. You informed me of Nixon's involvement in the drug war several years too late, as I showed in the stupid drug war thread.

I'm well aware that Biden's co-author was Strom Thurmond and that Senator Sessions singled out Biden for praise on the asset forfeiture issue. TeamR deserves most of the blame for drug war looting, but they couldn't have done it without blessed bipartisan unity. Biden's support was crucial.

As for Bob Barr, I agree he was not the most credible libertarian candidate, but he and President Clinton did at least try to rein in drug war looting in 2000 and I've praised him for changing his mind on that issue, something that distinguishes him from Biden, who has never said a bad word about drug war looting.

I'm glad you've come around on erstwhile and soon to be Trumper again Bob Barr. So maybe there's hope you'll figure out that other drug warrior, Gary Johnson. Do you have any comment on Libertarian Party candidate for President Ron Paul calling abortion murder and bravely saying it should be a stites rahts thang? Actual libertarians are big on stahts rites. Why is that?

I must apologize though. It's almost as if I don't believe that libertarians exist and that those who wear that 'Badge of Courage', your boy Rand's phrase, are, like Rand himself, just faking it.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

So maybe there's hope you'll figure out that other drug warrior, Gary Johnson.

I'm always glad when drug warriors come around to the libertarian way of thinking. For example,

Kamala Come Lately
 

Laughable in 2014, a campaign position in 2019.

Better late than never, so welcome Senator Harris!

 

[Olsonist]

I'm always glad when drug warriors come around to the libertarian way of thinking.

I'm glad the Prodigal Son is your favorite parable. Now about your boy Ron's anti-abortion stance.

 

[bdgWesternMass]

I think a better question is do conservatives still exist. Th current group labeled conservative is very far from my idea of conservatism.

 

[Raz'r]

The no true Scotsman Libertarian fallacy.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I think a better question is do conservatives still exist. Th current group labeled conservative is very far from my idea of conservatism.

Sure they do. Joe Biden is as conservative as anyone can be. Not sure if any are in the Republican Party anymore, I liked it when they were.