Don't MoveTo Florida

billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
Insurance is one of our biggest expenses - 2 cars, 2 houses, boat etc.

I have never been fucked over by an insurance company - well, except ICBC, our mandatory public auto insurance provider.

Insurance companies are like cops, lawyers and tow truck drivers - everyone loves to hate them until they need them.

Insurance is just necessary protection. You don't expect that your house is going to burn down, but you still insure it for that, right? Just look at all the poor folks out west who didn't have fire insurance, and their homes are steaming piles of cinders and ashes now.

Local Body Shop has a sign prominently displayed in their office, "If you have Geico or Progressive insurance, you will pay more!"
We had two major claims over a 5 year period insured by Geico and had zero problems getting proper coverage and repairs. Maybe we were the exception to the rule, but that's how it went down. And Geico screwed up when they did not include rental reimbursement when I changed cars. But their "preferred" body shop had a beater Nissan Altima loaner that saved me thousands in rental costs, as it took over 2 months for the repairs on a one-year-old car that flooded up to the top of the seat bottoms in a flash flood.
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Not for nothing

Super Anarchist
3,071
691
jupiter
A relative of mine is about to move to Florida to be closer to family. Her relatives are Trumpers as far as I can tell. Her politics are centre-left. I don't see this going well at all.
That's an understatement
I would say by 2025, they won't be talking to each other
you can pass that on to her
 

veni vidi vici

Super Anarchist
2,229
469


F6477760-4595-498B-90A8-D73334EB83C7.jpeg
 

Jules

Super Anarchist
8,260
3,127
Punta Gorda
Free market says 'fuck you florida, pay the actual cost of your risky decision to locate here.
Yeah! And all those who live where tornadoes hit or those who live near fault lines or those who live where freezing ice brings trees down on their homes and all those other commies who live where bad weather or natural disasters could damage their homes!
 

MR.CLEAN

Moderator
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Yeah! And all those who live where tornadoes hit or those who live near fault lines or those who live where freezing ice brings trees down on their homes and all those other commies who live where bad weather or natural disasters could damage their homes!
Don't be a child. California doesn't seem to have an issue retaining insurance companies. Tornados are random and typically affect at most a few hundred homes - an actuarial non-event. I assume you've run out of examples when you get to freezing ice.

Any major storm that impacts florida will always hit the most valuable part of the state - the strip of property within 2 miles of the ocean - first and hardest. Any major storm that hits any built-up area - which is pretty much the entire coast except the parks - will create claims not for a hundred or a thousand homes, but tens or hundreds of thousands. This isn't about individuals - this is simply the math of living somewhere with significant inherent risk. That's the sacrifice you pay to have all that sunshine and no state personal income tax.
 

MR.CLEAN

Moderator
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Health "insurance" is not a real insurance paradigm since there many incentives to use it routinely. In general, people don't intentionally wreck cars and burn down their own homes. So it's not a great comparison for true insurance.

If a building insurer is leaving the Florida market, they have basically decided they are more likely to lose money than make money. They are really into big data. If the airline's insurer refused to insure your flight today, would you still board if you knew that? What do they see that you don't?

Personally I would never move to FL. So flat as to be largely devoid of geographical landmarks IMHO. I hate the climate, even without hurricanes and the occasional wildfires. But the country derives some benefit from having somebody live there, if for no other reason than NASA and fishing. So we ought to help (within reasonable bounds) make it a livable place where people can raise kids. And if someone wants to live on a barrier island beach they can accept that personal risk with the commercial insurance markets.

After Hurricane Katrina some folks from non-gulf states opposed aid. But then Missouri gets a few tornados and Kentucky floods etc. and suddenly federal aid and loans and subsidies are a good thing. The West burns annually and Michigan has its own challenges with infrastructure and contamination. We are in this shit together and we need to decide if we are going to hang together as a nation or hang separately.
The discussion isn't about federal emergency aid at all. It is about state-regulated private insurance carriers.
 

Lark

Supper Anarchist
9,326
1,603
Ohio
Yeah! And all those who live where tornadoes hit or those who live near fault lines or those who live where freezing ice brings trees down on their homes and all those other commies who live where bad weather or natural disasters could damage their homes!
My last home is 134 years old. It’s never seen a tornado. One hit the county a couple decades ago, but they are localized so the risk for the entire county is not the risk for an individual structure. Fault lines are a predictable risk owners need to plan for. Having large brittle or diseased trees over your house is a clear hazard and reason insurance may deny a claim. Having any vegetation within a hundred meters of your house is a clear hazard in the fire states. It’s reasonable for insurance to consider these hazards when undertaking your risk. Living in hurricane territory with a warming ocean is a very big and known risk. Climate deniers can start their own statistics free insurance company, as Florida did.
 

NaptimeAgain

Super Anarchist
1,690
387
Annapolis MD
The discussion isn't about federal emergency aid at all. It is about state-regulated private insurance carriers.

They are mentioned in the post. If you want them to stay, the state regulators can make it worth their self interest to stay. Or the Feds might subsidize the insurance. Citizens will complain to the state if premiums are high. Like any other private enterprise, insurers will depart if the business environment doesn't suit them. If the residents want to start a mutual insurance program they can figure out how to do that (or why that would be a nightmare to administer.)

"If a building insurer is leaving the Florida market, they have basically decided they are more likely to lose money than make money. They are really into big data. If the airline's insurer refused to insure your flight today, would you still board if you knew that? What do they see that you don't?"
 
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Jules

Super Anarchist
8,260
3,127
Punta Gorda
My last home is 134 years old. It’s never seen a tornado.
My present home is 58 years old and has never been underwater, lost a roof or had any major storm damage to it. When Irma blew through, the house did fine. We've never had an insurance claim. We pay close to $6000/yr in insurance.

I lived in my last house for 27 years. At least three times the basement flooded from downpours. Last year a tornado was heading straight for it when it suddenly jumped up and over the house and dropped back down to continue on its path of destruction. The only loss was a big elm tree up front. I was paying about $2500/yr for insurance.

On the other side of the coin...

One neighbor here had just bought an old home for $249K and chose not to insure it. When Charlie hit, that house was almost wiped clean off its slab. FEMA came in and measured the slab and gave him $250K on the spot. They got another $250K from other agencies and built a big house, which they recently sold for $1.1M. And I've heard other neighbors talk about the same kind of thing.

A lot of neighbors here don't insure because they know in a major catastrophe the government will come in to try to make them whole. There should be a clause in there somewhere that says, if you didn't bother to take out insurance, you're on your own.
 

nota

Anarchist
I do not know about FEMA gifts of 250k after andrew
we got $2500 from them for the live aboard boat damage
and we asked about LOANS but were told NO
and 2.5 k was the standard FEMA payment for damage
so I think the decimal was moved a bit there dude

we armored the roof to stand up to 200 mph
doubled the end beams softet /facia are real 2x6
tripled the plywood base code is 5/8 we have 1 and1/2''
no nails glue and screws plastic peal and stick no tar no paper
then every other steel sheet doubled with extra long stronger screws
lapped over the roof peak 6 foot [every other sheet in 4 layers over the peek of the roof

then just to be sure we added 1/2'' SS rigging wire 23k working loads
over the whole roof from the slab to the slab so if the roof flys the whole CBS HOUSE AND CONCRETE SLAB FOLLOWS

IT COST 25K before the resent costs spike 4 years ago
but we said no to home ins and saved the costs

btw we use steel shutters also over the old style hurricane windows
I laff at the fools giving away shutters because they got the high tec windows sure they are good for ONE HIT then not so much
and do not for get the doors and that big garage door needs shutters also
 

MR.CLEAN

Moderator
45,971
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They are mentioned in the post. If you want them to stay, the state regulators can make it worth their self interest to stay. Or the Feds might subsidize the insurance. Citizens will complain to the state if premiums are high. Like any other private enterprise, insurers will depart if the business environment doesn't suit them. If the residents want to start a mutual insurance program they can figure out how to do that (or why that would be a nightmare to administer.)

"If a building insurer is leaving the Florida market, they have basically decided they are more likely to lose money than make money. They are really into big data. If the airline's insurer refused to insure your flight today, would you still board if you knew that? What do they see that you don't?"
The state has proven unable to keep them from fleeing or declaring bankruptcy. Rather than subsidize private enterprise, Ricky and Captain Ron decided to create a massive government agency to insure all the risky homes. And not only is it big governement - it's big government run by a board of their friends and donors. Fortunately, only the states fundamental economic health is at risk if it ends up being a loser. Good call by Cap'n Ron: We all know big government solutions are way more efficient and effective than the private insurance companies that all fucked off or went out of business.
 

billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
(snip)...
A lot of neighbors here don't insure because they know in a major catastrophe the government will come in to try to make them whole. There should be a clause in there somewhere that says, if you didn't bother to take out insurance, you're on your own.

A lot of places now are paying people to leave, and then leveling the homes to leave vacant lots, rather than allow another home to be built only to be destroyed again down the road. Maybe not where you are, but it is a trend elsewhere....
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Lark

Supper Anarchist
9,326
1,603
Ohio
My present home is 58 years old and has never been underwater, lost a roof or had any major storm damage to it. When Irma blew through, the house did fine. We've never had an insurance claim. We pay close to $6000/yr in insurance.

I lived in my last house for 27 years. At least three times the basement flooded from downpours. Last year a tornado was heading straight for it when it suddenly jumped up and over the house and dropped back down to continue on its path of destruction. The only loss was a big elm tree up front. I was paying about $2500/yr for insurance.

On the other side of the coin...

One neighbor here had just bought an old home for $249K and chose not to insure it. When Charlie hit, that house was almost wiped clean off its slab. FEMA came in and measured the slab and gave him $250K on the spot. They got another $250K from other agencies and built a big house, which they recently sold for $1.1M. And I've heard other neighbors talk about the same kind of thing.

A lot of neighbors here don't insure because they know in a major catastrophe the government will come in to try to make them whole. There should be a clause in there somewhere that says, if you didn't bother to take out insurance, you're on your own.
I’ve spoken against federal bailouts from hurricanes. i get a good snow most years, sometimes two. I have to shovel the drive myself. In 1978 there was a blizzard. Why should swamp dwellers on the gulf get special treatment just because they prefer torrential rain and force 12 winds? Fortunately the Tornado missed your house, that’s the usual outcome. They‘re a localized disaster.

Your neighbor got $250k for being stupid. I should get $250k for being smart enough not to be a burden on the taxpayers, including those in Florida. Is insurance not a calculation of risk and potential cost? Why is it unfair?
 
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