Drip Drip Drip

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,308
9,627
Eastern NC
do you think there is any chance in hell that mueller would allow flynn to plea away conspiring with the russians for a no time charge of lying to the fbi and fara?
Yes.

That is exactly the way good prosecutors work a plea bargain, with a person who has useful info on another bigger criminal

It's the basic nature of how plea bargains work.

If Mueller had Flynn nailed for -only- lying, and Flynn saw no hope of beating the rap, what does he gain by pleading guilty? He saw enough of Mueller's cards to realize that he was going to get nailed for something much worse if he didn't cooperate. Also, he did not have a "no-time charge" as he did not get any sentencing guarantee and that charge can definitely land one in the big house

Add to the above: this is exactly how Mueller has operated in the past on high-value, difficult-to-nail prosecutions.

-DSK

 

d'ranger

Super Anarchist
29,214
4,308
Flynn ain't flying alone, Mueller won't present anything with only one source. Once again, this will not end well for Trump, his family and his associates.  Buckle up buckaroos, it's about the get really bumpy.

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,308
9,627
Eastern NC
If you believe that you must also believe said bigger mark is going to be indicted for some crime Flynn can testify to.
Do you believe there ISN'T a "bigger mark" on the near horizon?

Don't forget, there are a pile of sealed indictments sitting on a desk, waiting for the right time

-DSK

 

billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
As a former prosecutor I can say yes we flip folks.  You all know that.

As a defense attorney I can say we attack the investigation.  You all know that.

As for Trump, the walls are closing in.  And he knows that.


This will be a fitting end for this exceptionally crooked, and venal, First Family!!

 
Last edited by a moderator:

hermetic

Super Anarchist
4,418
190
do you think there is any chance in hell that mueller would allow flynn to plea away conspiring with the russians for a no time charge of lying to the fbi and fara?
Yes.

That is exactly the way good prosecutors work a plea bargain, with a person who has useful info on another bigger criminal

It's the basic nature of how plea bargains work.

If Mueller had Flynn nailed for -only- lying, and Flynn saw no hope of beating the rap, what does he gain by pleading guilty? He saw enough of Mueller's cards to realize that he was going to get nailed for something much worse if he didn't cooperate. Also, he did not have a "no-time charge" as he did not get any sentencing guarantee and that charge can definitely land one in the big house

Add to the above: this is exactly how Mueller has operated in the past on high-value, difficult-to-nail prosecutions.
so in your mind,  mueller has flynn nailed on treason yet tells the judge to let him walk.  you have a vivid imagination

the facts (the indictment) point to something much easier to believe

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Left Shift

Super Anarchist
10,532
3,272
Seattle
As a former prosecutor I can say yes we flip folks.  You all know that.

As a defense attorney I can say we attack the investigation.  You all know that.

As for Trump, the walls are closing in.  And he knows that.
Winning the Oval Office was his worst nightmare all wrapped up in gold foil and ribbons.

 

hasher

Super Anarchist
6,640
1,101
Insanity
so in your mind,  mueller has flynn nailed on treason yet tells the judge to let him walk.  you have a vivid imagination

the facts (the indictment) point to something much easier to believe
Let's see.  The Judge has more information than we do and it was given to him by Mueller.  The Judge wants to see more cooperation and Mueller was already content.  The pressure is on Flynn to be more expansive.  Clearly Flynn is in deep shit and sinking fast.  He is grabbing hands and they are going down with him.  Mueller threw him a life line and the Judge won't let him catch it.  Got it?

 

Bent Sailor

Super Anarchist
14,395
404
Lake Macquarie
do you think there is any chance in hell that mueller would allow flynn to plea away conspiring with the russians for a no time charge of lying to the fbi and fara?
Yes, if the threat of that charge allowed him to use testimony he otherwise couldn't obtain from Flynn to be used to nail someone higher up. The FBI have made worse deals than that to get to people lower in the food chain than, say, the president of the US.

 

weightless

Super Anarchist
5,607
583
 Can Mitch McCturtle protect the president (and his wife's cushy job with the administration) by not allowing the senate vote for conviction to come to the floor?
I dunno but I suspect not because the Chief Justice would preside over the Senate.

Article I, Section 3:
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.


Judgment in Cases of Impeachments shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust, or Profit under the United States, but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment, and Punishmnet, according to Law.

Article II, Section 4:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.


 
Last edited by a moderator:

Lifted Tack

Super Anarchist
1,139
67
Good question. It’s possible that enough GOP Senators conclude that they are headed for a bloodbath in 2020 and take the opportunity to ditch Trump. Tough spot the GOP is in - it seems like a lose/lose situation to me. If they defend Trump, they keep the third of the electorate and lose everybody else. Shitcan him and they risk losing a big chunk of the base.  I can’t think of scenario that produces victories in the next general. 
Once a trial for impeachment starts, I don't think Mitch can stop it. The Chief Justice would preside, and only he could stop the proceedings. However, Mitch would have to let it get that far. He could refuse to convene the Senate for the purpose of impeachment, and he could also strong arm his members not to vote guilty.

I think that before it ever got that far, the Republicans would endeavor to have Trump resign and have Pence pardon him for the "good of the country," which is another way of saying they would want to clean up the mess as quickly and quietly as possible so as to reduce the long term fallout. That's what they did with Nixon. Unfortunately, Trump doesn't hold the power and prestige of the Republican Party in the same esteem as did Tricky Dick.

 

hermetic

Super Anarchist
4,418
190
Let's see.  The Judge has more information than we do and it was given to him by Mueller.  The Judge wants to see more cooperation and Mueller was already content.  The pressure is on Flynn to be more expansive.  Clearly Flynn is in deep shit and sinking fast.  He is grabbing hands and they are going down with him.  Mueller threw him a life line and the Judge won't let him catch it.  Got it?
of course I get it.

but I can not recall the fbi letting a traitor walk.  can you?

I can see them letting flynn walk on the lying and fara for his cooperation, but letting a three star walk for treason?  no way

 

Bent Sailor

Super Anarchist
14,395
404
Lake Macquarie
of course I get it.

but I can not recall the fbi letting a traitor walk.  can you?

I can see them letting flynn walk on the lying and fara for his cooperation, but letting a three star walk for treason?  no way
He's not been pardoned, he's not been given immunity. and he's not been charged with treason yet. Who said he'd completely walk when all is said and done? The FBI need leverage, a sealed treason indictment would give them that, and provided he doesn't back out of the agreement that treason indictment could go away and turn into something without the death penalty at a later date. That and the FBI have let murderers walk.

Everyone on the right keeps pretending that things don't makes sense now as if they know everything Mueller knows and that Mueller isn't still progressing the investigation, leaving everything as it stands right this very second. It's either a very stupid or deliberately dishonest way to view the matter. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:




Top