Drip Drip Drip

[Bus Driver]

I suppose you're hanging your hope on the first line - classification.

nope

I would offer the last point has merit.

 

[hermetic]

I suppose you're hanging your hope on the first line - classification.

nope

I would offer the last point has merit.

in what way?

 

[Sean]

Trump’s biggest mistake ever was winning the election. Now that he’s lost the protection of sycophant majorities in Congress, he’s in for a bumpy ride. Buckle up!

Good read from Bloomberg -

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-07/nadler-and-others-look-at-trump-s-business-dealings

That Time Trump Got $18.3 Million in Palm Beach

Scrutiny of his business dealings is just the start of a long and possibly harrowing experience for the president and his entourage.

Excerpt -

A series of hurricanes tore through Florida in 2005, and Mar-a-Lago, President Donald Trump’s business and residence in Palm Beach, was apparently very beaten up because Trump collected about $18.3 million in insurance payments from Aon PLC that year.

Snip

Scrutiny of Trump’s insurance dealings is just the beginning of what is going to be a long, meandering and possibly harrowing experience for the president, his family, longtime employees of the Trump Organization, many of Trump’s business partners and the White House. Federal prosecutors in Manhattan, attorneys general in Virginia, New York and the District of Columbia, five committees within the House of Representatives and, now, banking and insurance regulators, are all putting the Trump Organization and the president’s financial and political dealings under a wide array of microscopes.

snip

In 2016, the Associated Press scoured Palm Beach property records for damage reports, interviewed the adjuster who assessed Trump’s insurance claim, met with the man who oversaw Mar-a-Lago and spoke with several former Palm Beach officials about possible hurricane damage to the club. There was “little evidence” of “large-scale damage,” the AP concluded. When the AP wrote about Trump’s club again in 2017, it noted that “strikes by four major hurricanes have done little damage to Mar-a-Lago in the 90 years since” it was built.

 

[hermetic]

congress can not legislate it's way past the constitutional right afforded the president to be the final arbiter.  if a crime has been committed, let the fbi investigate it.

again, congress has no business inserting itself into personnel clearance levels or the classification of documents

The President does not have the Constitutional right to give access to top secret or sensitive information to his son-in-law so that his son-in-law can sell it to the highest bidder.

It looks like that's what happened. Maybe it didn't but without an investigation, there is no answer. Investigation is part of oversight, which is Congress' duty.

you are talking about something that congress is not investigating.  they are investigating personnel clearance levels

 

[Nice!]

The President does not have the Constitutional right to give access to top secret or sensitive information to his son-in-law so that his son-in-law can sell it to the highest bidder.

It looks like that's what happened. Maybe it didn't but without an investigation, there is no answer. Investigation is part of oversight, which is Congress' duty.

-DSK

Security clearances are issued by the executive branch. As head of the executive branch, the prez has the final authority. So in fact he does have the legal right to issue or withdraw clearances, even against the recommendations of intelligence or security personnel.

That said, with nepotism at play, the optics for the prez and his family members are not good.

 

[Steam Flyer]

Security clearances are issued by the executive branch. As head of the executive branch, the prez has the final authority. So in fact he does have the legal right to issue or withdraw clearances, even against the recommendations of intelligence or security personnel.

That said, with nepotism at play, the optics for the prez and his family members are not good.

That's not quite what I said..... the President does indeed have the final authority, but he also has a duty to the country. To place his family's financial gain above national security is a breach and an abuse of office.

It's far far more than optics. Unfortunately the only way to curtail abuse is by impeachment, which is simply not going to happen as long as most Republicans agree that Trump's personal gain is more important than the national interest.

It's possible, maybe even probable, that Ivanka and Jared have not used their security clearances for profit. But given the circumstances of what is known now, why would you think they wouldn't? Personal conscience and ethics?

Congress would be failing their duty if they did not look into it.

-DSK

 

[Mrleft8]

I'd think the anti-nepotism law would kick in at some point....

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

I'd think the anti-nepotism law would kick in at some point....

Serious question - does that apply to executive appointments?  To be clear, I think that it SHOULD - but, aren't political appointments are a little different then OPM regulations?  You have to question the wisdom and intent of anyone who'd purposefully do something that every other officeholder in the land would avoid for the sake af fairness and propriety.    

 

[Left Shift]

I'd think the anti-nepotism law would kick in at some point....

As will the emoluments clause.

The Adderall-addicted fat porker and his retinue are due for a face plant.

 

[Sean]

You have to question the wisdom and intent of anyone who'd purposefully do something that every other officeholder in the land would avoid for the sake af fairness and propriety.

You’ve distilled this Presidency to one sentence. I fear he’s taking half the country with him. I only hope that as a society we can recover.

 

[Bus Driver]

in what way?

President Trump has reorganized the Executive branch by appointing family and friends to positions for which they are not remotely qualified.

Should that be ignored?

 

[hermetic]

in what way?

President Trump has reorganized the Executive branch by appointing family and friends to positions for which they are not remotely qualified.

Should that be ignored?

appointing advisors - whether they suck at their job or not - hardly rises to the level of reorganization.  similarly, the white house doesn't get to interfere with congressional aides or advisor appointments.

 

[hermetic]

That's not quite what I said..... the President does indeed have the final authority, but he also has a duty to the country. To place his family's financial gain above national security is a breach and an abuse of office.

It's far far more than optics. Unfortunately the only way to curtail abuse is by impeachment, which is simply not going to happen as long as most Republicans agree that Trump's personal gain is more important than the national interest.

It's possible, maybe even probable, that Ivanka and Jared have not used their security clearances for profit. But given the circumstances of what is known now, why would you think they wouldn't? Personal conscience and ethics?

Congress would be failing their duty if they did not look into it.

I agree 100%

but this is not what congress is investigating.  they should stay out of clearances and classifications

 

[Mike G]

President Trump has reorganized the Executive branch by appointing family and friends to positions for which they are not remotely qualified.

Should that be ignored?

The "qualified" part is subjective.  That allows the red hats to hold on to their belief that Trump is a great manager and he's doing what's best for the country.

The override of the recommendations of the security people with regard to the security clearance is less subjective, and more black/white.

In reality, it SHOULD convince the red hats that it was a stupid move, but Trumps constant degradation of our security departments will allow Trump to just say the 

clearances weren't granted by them because they're deep state/etc.

It will take a big, hard slap in the face to get that 30% to alter their views.

 

[SloopJonB]

The "qualified" part is subjective.  That allows the red hats to hold on to their belief that Trump is a great manager and he's doing what's best for the country.

The override of the recommendations of the security people with regard to the security clearance is less subjective, and more black/white.

In reality, it SHOULD convince the red hats that it was a stupid move, but Trumps constant degradation of our security departments will allow Trump to just say the 

clearances weren't granted by them because they're deep state/etc.

It will take a big, hard slap in the face to get that 30% to alter their views.

They've been slapped hard and nothin'

I don't think anything less than decapitation will do it.

 

[Sean]

but this is not what congress is investigating.  they should stay out of clearances and classifications

With respect to clearances, I have to disagree. Congress has a duty (ignored under Trump until recently) of oversight in this arena. 

https://oversight.house.gov/investigations/security-clearances

 

[Steam Flyer]

It will take a big, hard slap in the face to get that 30% to alter their views.

They've been slapped hard and nothin'

I don't think anything less than decapitation will do it.

First, I think the number of people who currently support Trump in almost all aspects ("Build Tha Wall!! Lock Her Up!!!!") is larger than 30% but the number of people who would support Trump NO MATTER WHAT is smaller. His support has been shrinking for most of his Presidency, at every outrage a few get off the bus. Many of them will still say words of support if asked by somebody whom they perceive as a likely Democrat or libby-rull, but really don't.

But remember Nixon, busted cold, still had a 25% approval rating, and Trump is a lot more appealing to the haterz.

-DSK

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

With respect to clearances, I have to disagree. Congress has a duty (ignored under Trump until recently) of oversight in this arena. 

https://oversight.house.gov/investigations/security-clearances

<SNIP>

Not intending to be contrary Sean - but, Cummings agenda for the committee  != its statutory scope , nor does it define the statutory scope of executive privilege w/r/t issuing clearances.   The President absolutely does have the authority to issue a clearance to anyone for anything he deems necessary - the POTUS is the ultimate classification authority.    

If they want to investigate the behavior of the people to whom classified information has been entrusted?  IMHO that's completely within their purview.  Trying to suggest that they can tell the POTUS who can and can't have a clearance?  My understanding of this process and the regs that govern it say that that's a non-starter. 

 

[Mike G]

Not intending to be contrary Sean - but, Cummings agenda for the committee  != its statutory scope , nor does it define the statutory scope of executive privilege w/r/t issuing clearances.   The President absolutely does have the authority to issue a clearance to anyone for anything he deems necessary - the POTUS is the ultimate classification authority.    

If they want to investigate the behavior of the people to whom classified information has been entrusted?  IMHO that's completely within their purview.  Trying to suggest that they can tell the POTUS who can and can't have a clearance?  My understanding of this process and the regs that govern it say that that's a non-starter. 

Makes sense, and I agree with basically what you said.  There needs to be some latitude given to the CIC in this area.  But again, why the lies?  It just brings suspicion when

it's not necessary.

 

[Steam Flyer]

It's possible, maybe even probable, that Ivanka and Jared have not used their security clearances for profit. But given the circumstances of what is known now, why would (anyone) think they wouldn't? Personal conscience and ethics?

Congress would be failing their duty if they did not look into it.

I agree 100%

but this is not what congress is investigating.  they should stay out of clearances and classifications

It's like AGITC said, the President is the ultimate authority on issuing clearances. However that authority is granted on the assumption he is acting with at least some regard for the good of the nation.

I'll be very interested to see more about this investigation, and while it is sure to have some political overtones (can't be avoided nowadays) I would hope to be among the first to cry "FOUL!" if it turns into a Benghazi-like shitshow.

-DSK