Drip Drip Drip

[Bus Driver]

So - now you're opposed to the constitutional relegation of authority to the states?   Not a big surprise, really. 

Honest question - the Supremes say it doesn't belong in Federal court.  Does that mean it goes back to the state courts?

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

So - now you're opposed to the constitutional relegation of authority to the states?   Not a big surprise, really. 

Supreme Court just allowed gerrymandering. Break out the bananas. 

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Fast forward Reagan to present day, and let him talk about a shining city on the hill.  The Proud Boys would slaughter him for being a snowflake. 

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

Honest question - the Supremes say it doesn't belong in Federal court.  Does that mean it goes back to the state courts?

In all sincerity - I think that they punted.  I think that voting districts shouldn't be established politically, that a standard formula should be applied to avoid any partisan influence.   That said, after reading the opinions, I do understand why they decided that this is a matter for the states, and I think that the states *should* take it up.  

 

[justsomeguy!]

I think you're wrong, and think I have a bit more faith in the average person than you do - but, that's why we discuss things, isn't it? 

That's the spirit!

 

[Bus Driver]

In all sincerity - I think that they punted.  I think that voting districts shouldn't be established politically, that a standard formula should be applied to avoid any partisan influence.   That said, after reading the opinions, I do understand why they decided that this is a matter for the states, and I think that the states *should* take it up.  

So, is it just for the voting booth, or can the state courts straighten it out?

Seriously, if we allow hyperpartisan gerrymandering, how can we expect the electorate will ever have a real voice in how votes are counted?

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

So, is it just for the voting booth, or can the state courts straighten it out?

Seriously, if we allow hyperpartisan gerrymandering, how can we expect the electorate will ever have a real voice in how votes are counted?

C'mon Bus - what about my comment indicates that I approve of gerrymandering?  I think that the state courts SHOULD straighten it out, and that this decision establishes that they have that authority, and with it, that responsibility.   The downside of this decision is that I doubt is that the majority party in any state in which the districts aren't drawn fairly is going to feel compelled to take up the issue absent fear of voter reprisal.  So - pragmatically, I think that the voters need to push it if we expect any action to be taken. 

 

[Nice!]

I don't see that happening at all.  The people watching the testimony will mostly be the people who have read the report. People like Dog who have no interest in the actual report about an investigation into a foreign power interfering in our election(s) will not be tuning in to listen to testimony about it. The last thing they want is actual knowledge about the report, because it removes plausible deniability challenges the emotional personal identity that they have developed around supporting Trump.

FIFY

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

FIFY

I think Trump is a symptom.  Like any good con man, he reads people well and figures out what they want.  Working people in this country haven't seen a meaningful raise for going on 40 years, while everything is getting more expensive. People are pissed off and looking for someone to blame.  Trump points at people who look, worship, fuck, educate differently and gives them a boogeyman other than the people who have owned the government and reaped all the benefits of economic growth over those 40 years. The illness is resentment borne of the realization that fewer and fewer people have a chance to do as well as their parents did.  Trump is just a symptom of that, who found a willing host for his parasitic methods. 

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

The Court allows the citizenship question to remain blocked for now.  Had the Administration told the truth about why they implemented it, instead of Doggy Styling, it might have gotten rubber stamped. 

"cannot ignore the disconnect between the decision made and the explanation given"

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/717635291/supreme-court-leaves-citizenship-question-blocked-from-2020-census

 

[Nice!]

I think Trump is a symptom.  Like any good con man, he reads people well and figures out what they want.  Working people in this country haven't seen a meaningful raise for going on 40 years, while everything is getting more expensive. People are pissed off and looking for someone to blame.  Trump points at people who look, worship, fuck, educate differently and gives them a boogeyman other than the people who have owned the government and reaped all the benefits of economic growth over those 40 years. The illness is resentment borne of the realization that fewer and fewer people have a chance to do as well as their parents did.  Trump is just a symptom of that, who found a willing host for his parasitic methods. 

This.

 

[Steam Flyer]

So, is it just for the voting booth, or can the state courts straighten it out?

Seriously, if we allow hyperpartisan gerrymandering, how can we expect the electorate will ever have a real voice in how votes are counted?

C'mon Bus - what about my comment indicates that I approve of gerrymandering?  I think that the state courts SHOULD straighten it out, and that this decision establishes that they have that authority, and with it, that responsibility.   The downside of this decision is that I doubt is that the majority party in any state in which the districts aren't drawn fairly is going to feel compelled to take up the issue absent fear of voter reprisal.  So - pragmatically, I think that the voters need to push it if we expect any action to be taken. 

In some cases, the voters have been rendered irrelevant.

The NC Supreme Court ordered the NC legislature to redistrict in a less gerrymandered way, and the legislature ignored them. After all, how many divisions does the NC Supreme Court command?

-DSK

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

In some cases, the voters have been rendered irrelevant.

The NC Supreme Court ordered the NC legislature to redistrict in a less gerrymandered way, and the legislature ignored them. After all, how many divisions does the NC Supreme Court command?

-DSK

How can the legislature get away with ignoring a state supreme court decision?   Seriously - I don't get that. 

 

[Olsonist]

The last two indicate that you really aren't interested in fairness, or in protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority, but, hey, that's how you roll.  I'll oppose that - and one of us might end up happy.  

The last three indicate I am especially interested in fairness. That's how I roll.

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

The last three indicate I am especially interested in fairness. That's how I roll.

How so when you want the will of people in less populous states to be disregarded?   

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

How can the legislature get away with ignoring a state supreme court decision?   Seriously - I don't get that. 

It's not a quantum leap from the executive branch saying FU to any type of congressional oversight.  "Whatcha gonna do about it?" Even if the courts require it, what are THEY gonna do about it?  Our system works only if the people in charge of it believe in our system and agree to comply with it.  Once they start playing for a different team, it all goes up in smoke. 

 

[Olsonist]

How so when you want the will of people in less populous states to be disregarded?   

Because I want each of the citizens in all of the states to be treated equally. I may have been born in California but my passport says US of Fucking A.

 

[Steam Flyer]

How can the legislature get away with ignoring a state supreme court decision?   Seriously - I don't get that. 

Well, perhaps "ignoring them" isn't the best description, but that's the end result. They whined and complained and insisted that it was too soon after an election, then too soon before one, and that it would cost too much, etc etc, and then they realized that they were getting away with it and should just shut up.

One of the cases ended up in the Supreme Court which refused to rule this particular gerrymander as unConstitutional. There are a couple more in the works.

From the Raleigh News & Observer, 25 June 2019 (begin quote)

The North Carolina case originated last year when a three-judge panel struck down the Republican-drawn map from 2011 as an unconstitutional partisan gerrymander. When the General Assembly met to pass that congressional map, Republican Rep. David Lewis, co-chair of the elections committee responsible for the alleged gerrymander, said he believed “electing Republicans is better than electing Democrats.”

“I propose that we draw the maps to give a partisan advantage to 10 Republicans and three Democrats because I do not believe it’s possible to draw a map with 11 Republicans and two Democrats,” Lewis said at the time.

Out of 13 House seats up for election in 2018, Republicans claimed 10, even though Republican candidates received just 50.3 percent of the vote.  (end quote)

I believe the next case will be whether the reconstituted partisan state elections board can simply shut off or remove voting machines from districts they believe will return a majority of undesirable votes. It's an interesting exercise in preserving the form of democracy without the substance. Goddam people are like cattle, why the fuck should they get a say in things?

-DSK

Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article231422113.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Mrleft8]

This thread has been corrupted.

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

Because I want each of the citizens in all of the states to be treated equally. I may have been born in California but my passport says US of Fucking A.

So - you don't think that it's appropriate for the citizens of a state to decide their own laws?   There's nothing that I'm aware of that prevents you from going anywhere ya want as a citizen of the US - but, your position seems to disregard the consideration of local priorities and concerns.  What's important for you in Oakland might not mean much to me in the Shenandoah Valley, and similarly, some of the things we care about here probably mean little to you.  I don't see that as a bad thing - why do you?