Dropping my Cal 20 keel

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

Adding to what was  said above the keel bolts were galvanived steel origianlly. At leat in the #1300 build range. And like I said we had an A frame to lift the boat with straps.

Thanks.  I missed the part about the A frame to lift boat (which actually was my original thought on how to do it, but then thought jacks might be easier.)

Anyway - thanks for the clarification.

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

The thickened epoxy is to ensure a perfect match between keel and hull. The Mylar is so the epoxy doesn't stick to hull. Make sure the keel is square from side to side. Once the epoxy has set, you lift the hull off the keel, remove the Mylar, and use the bedding compound of choice. It will be between the thin film of thickened epoxy on the keel and the hull. 

Got it - the thickened epoxy sets up and creates two new mating surfaces between hull and keel for the eventual re-attaching of the two.

Any suggestions for a bedding compound?  (I didn't really think 5200, though have read of people using it there...but doesn't seems ok for hull/deck joint, which you don't ever want to undo!)

 

[allene222]

(I didn't really think 5200, though have read of people using it there...but doesn't seems ok for hull/deck joint, which you don't ever want to undo!)

If you don't ever want to undo it, why are you undoing it?

 

[RKoch]

I've used 5200 for keel work in the past. The keels were bonded originally with what appeared to be 5200, but a bit of perseverance separated it. I wasn't too concerned about removing the keel 30 years down the road, after I reinstalled them. 

 

[Steam Flyer]

I've used 5200 for keel work in the past. The keels were bonded originally with what appeared to be 5200, but a bit of perseverance separated it. I wasn't too concerned about removing the keel 30 years down the road, after I reinstalled them. 

Bingo.

I've used 5200 a fair amount, the worst thing about it is that it is not UV resistant (but you can paint over it). It's good stuff IMHO, strong, far less likely to leak or bubble than other compounds, and -if- you end up being the poor bastard that has to remove it, it's really only about 10% more difficult than a lot of less effective sealant/adhesives.

The boats I work on are generally old & cheap enough that I'm re-doing somebody else's half-assed work. My work may be difficult to undo at some undefined future point but at least it is full-assed. 

FB- Doug

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

If you don't ever want to undo it, why are you undoing it?

Typo (typing on small phone touchscreen):  meant to say 5200 DOES seem ok for a typical hull/deck joint, which isn't typically ever taken apart (as compared to hull/keel joint, which might be, at some point in a boat's life).

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

Bingo.

I've used 5200 a fair amount, the worst thing about it is that it is not UV resistant (but you can paint over it). It's good stuff IMHO, strong, far less likely to leak or bubble than other compounds, and -if- you end up being the poor bastard that has to remove it, it's really only about 10% more difficult than a lot of less effective sealant/adhesives.

The boats I work on are generally old & cheap enough that I'm re-doing somebody else's half-assed work. My work may be difficult to undo at some undefined future point but at least it is full-assed. 

FB- Doug

Makes sense.  This Cal 20 is 50 years old, I've already got some 5200 kicking around, and I definitely won't ever be undoing the keel again!  (Nor will my daughter - I've convinced her to move up to a Moore 24 when she turns 18...she'll be a really good sailor by then.  The Cal 20 is a great "learner" boat for now, to supplement her Laser sailing, yet it's also quite capable of taking one to Alaska --that is, if one were so inclined... )

 

[SloopJonB]

One thing to consider re: 5200 in your case is that the bolts are accessible/replaceable without dropping the keel. Even if they should go bad down the road they can be pulled & replaced easily without disturbing the keel seal.

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

I've done a similar job and I would highly recommend you make a couple of cradles shaped to the hull - one front & one rear - to support the hull over the jacks. Jack one end a couple of inches and move the trailer struts up then the other end and so forth.

I didn't do it that way 40 years ago when I put the 1 ton keel on my Quarter Pounder and I still get the cold sweats when I think about how clueless I was and how lucky I was to survive.

IIRC your keel is held on by FH machine screws through a flange so removing them should be very easy - block the keel as you mentioned, remove the nuts and drive the screws out with a hammer and drift. Then raise the hull. You'll want the hull at least 6" above the keel flange so you have enough room to get your hands in with scrapers etc. to clean things up for re-bedding.

It's actually a pretty simple job, it is just intimidating because of the weights involved.

Spend a few extra bucks and get the new screws & nuts in Monel or Ti - the actual $ difference over SS will be minimal and they will last forever.

Thanks for the details, Sloop.  I may invite you over for a beer to supervise, once the boat's secured/blocked and things are ready to go, if you're able.  . Seriously.  If I'm not mistaken, you're in my neck of the woods, near Howe Sound?

(Probably won't get around to this until January, once I get the big boat back in the water, the little boat out of the water and in my yard, and a tall-ish tarp shelter set up to work in on the little boat.)

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

One thing to consider re: 5200 in your case is that the bolts are accessible/replaceable without dropping the keel. Even if they should go bad down the road they can be pulled & replaced easily without disturbing the keel seal.

Good point.  But I've got a fibreglass repair (hull crack?) I need to sort out, which I suspect might require dropping the keel for access.

But, truthfully, I won't know for sure until boat is on trailer in my yard and I can strip a bit of bottom paint/grind back some glass to investigate further.  I'd LOVE not to remove keel and only replace/inspect keel bolts!

 

[SloopJonB]

Thanks for the details, Sloop.  I may invite you over for a beer to supervise, once the boat's secured/blocked and things are ready to go, if you're able.  . Seriously.  If I'm not mistaken, you're in my neck of the woods, near Howe Sound?

(Probably won't get around to this until January, once I get the big boat back in the water, the little boat out of the water and in my yard, and a tall-ish tarp shelter set up to work in on the little boat.)

Whytecliff Park - right near Horseshoe Bay.

PM me when the time comes - I'm always up for supervising a boat project. I've mounted the aforementioned 2000 Lb keel on a 26' new build and removed and replaced a 10,000 Lb keel on a 43 so I'm not inexperienced at this.

Re: the 5200 - my comment was directed at when you re-mount it. I understand it needs dropping now.

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

Whytecliff Park - right near Horseshoe Bay.

PM me when the time comes - I'm always up for supervising a boat project. I've mounted the aforementioned 2000 Lb keel on a 26' new build and removed and replaced a 10,000 Lb keel on a 43 so I'm not inexperienced at this.

Re: the 5200 - my comment was directed at when you re-mount it. I understand it needs dropping now.

Great - would be fantastic to have an experienced hand nearby!  I've never done anything like this before.

Stay tuned

 

[Norse Horse]

There have been a couple free boats on CL the past month if you are looking for a taller rig.

Good luck with the keel. SJB did a really nice finish on his last hull. That would really help for your light air race days like Round Bowen or R2AK.

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

There have been a couple free boats on CL the past month if you are looking for a taller rig.

Good luck with the keel. SJB did a really nice finish on his last hull. That would really help for your light air race days like Round Bowen or R2AK.

Now that's a fun idea: R2AK.  I would never even contemplate that (BTW, by chance, I just noticed that Alex Whitworth is in for 2018...holy crikey, he's an absolute legend (Berrimilla).  The stories he must have to tell...)  I did Round Bowen a few years ago singlehanded in a consistent 20-25 kts, maybe a few higher gusts, literally all the way around...no autopilot...talk about having ones hands full!)

I love your taller rig idea - brilliant!  I'm having a peek at CL now.  Any free boats in particular that you noticed?  None jumped out at me.  (Edit: just saw that you said "in the last month", so probably gone.  I'll keep my eyes open - thanks for the idea.)

 

[Norse Horse]

Now that's a fun idea: R2AK.  I would never even contemplate that (BTW, I literally just noticed Alex Whitworth is in for 2018...holy crikey, he's an absolute legend (Berrimilla).  The stories he must have to tell...)  I did Round Bowen a few years ago singlehanded in a consistent 20-25 kts, maybe a few higher gusts, literally all the way around...no autopilot...talk about having ones hands full!)

I love your taller rig idea - brilliant!  I'm having a peek at CL now.  Any free boats in particular that you noticed?  None jumped out at me.

There was a beater C20 in False Kreek almost free and a 23' boat in the Free Section a couple days back. There is one abandoned boat in the Blind Channel. It may have been removed if it dragged. There was a SJ24 and an old thunderbird rig a while back.

Cheers

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

There was a beater C20 in False Kreek almost free and a 23' boat in the Free Section a couple days back. There is one abandoned boat in the Blind Channel. It may have been removed if it dragged. There was a SJ24 and an old thunderbird rig a while back.

Cheers

Thanks.  BTW, what's your 20er's mast height, out of curiosity?  Cal20's are about 26' long, while on the absolute other end of the spectrum, a MiniTransat 6.5m (~21') has something like a 40' mast.

 

[Norse Horse]

Thanks.  BTW, what's your 20er's mast height, out of curiosity?  Cal20's are about 26' long, while on the absolutely other end of the spectrum, a MiniTransat 6.5m (~21') has something like a 40' mast.

Mine is 27 but you can get 29 in the same stick size, in boats from Mac 26's and other smaller cruisers that used the same pole. Dyer still lists my mast as a DM6.

https://www.dwyermast.com/families.asp?cat1ID=20&cat1Name=Masts

 

[Somebody Else]

One thing to consider re: 5200 in your case is that the bolts are accessible/replaceable without dropping the keel. Even if they should go bad down the road they can be pulled & replaced easily without disturbing the keel seal.

A thin application of automobile wax on the threads of the bolts is nice.

 

[Devoforedeckus]

You need to contact Steve Seal at http://www.sealsspars.com/. He is the master of all things Cal-20. I used to work for him and we did many, many keel bolt replacements. He's got all the Cal-20 parts you could ever want.

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

You need to contact Steve Seal at http://www.sealsspars.com/. He is the master of all things Cal-20. I used to work for him and we did many, many keel bolt replacements. He's got all the Cal-20 parts you could ever want.

Thanks - totally forgot about checking in with Steve Seals.  He is "the man" for Cal 20s...(not knowing him, I always think if of him as a "parts guy", but of course he must know a ton in general).