Drug Prohibition: Still Stupid

LB 15

Cunt
random said:
A bit of good news from the war on some drugs this morning.

Jeff Mizanskey, Who Served 21 Years of a Life Sentence for Marijuana, is Released

Even better news would be if we quit locking people up for life for marijuana offenses, but treating rapists and murderers more harshly than pot dealers is a bit much to hope for.
Yeah but if they are in private prisons then there is less profit for the company that runs it. That can't be a good thing for Merica.
When you end up on your hands and knees in the toilet block of one you won't be caring who runs it.

 

Pertinacious Tom

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I don't like private prisons because I don't think a business should have an incentive to want people locked up. To me, that's one of the less important reasons to oppose the stupid war on some drugs.

A friend recently pointed out to me that a state-run prison will probably have a powerful union and that union will view more prisoners as job security. Basically, the same perverse incentive as exists in private prisons.

I haven't figured out why, but I still think locking people up should be a strictly government function. But he did make a good point and I'm still thinking about it.

 

Pertinacious Tom

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A bit of good news from the war on some drugs this morning.

Jeff Mizanskey, Who Served 21 Years of a Life Sentence for Marijuana, is Released

Even better news would be if we quit locking people up for life for marijuana offenses, but treating rapists and murderers more harshly than pot dealers is a bit much to hope for.
Jeff watched child molesters "come and go and come again and go."

You have to release child molesters to make room for really dangerous people. Like pot dealers.

 

tuk tuk Joe

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Yep, pot dealers are very bad....

TroopsinAfghanistanprotectingourfreedomhereathomeohwaitthatsapoppyfieldnevermind.jpg


 

Pertinacious Tom

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miscut jib said:
So you are casually indifferent to the human cost of these things or just blinded by your ideology? I mean - every fuckwhit knows there's pot and there's other drugs and only a disingenuous troll would link say, heroin, to weed.
I agree that drug warriors are disingenuous trolls for putting both heroin and marijuana in Schedule 1. They're saying that marijuana has no known medical use against a mounting pile of evidence that it is medically useful and they are saying it has a high potential for abuse, higher than Schedule 2 drugs like cocaine, morphine and many other powerful drugs.

It's too bad that they act this way, but there's nothing wrong with pointing out that the two are linked in our laws.

 
The only thing worse than legal heroin is illegal heroin.

You know what opium is don't you? Like everything on this earth its there for us to use or abuse.

Alcohol is a far more damaging drug in our society than pot, heroin or opium but we can ignore that.

That was for MC. jib.

 
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Pertinacious Tom

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Obama's latest DEA head still clinging to the old lies

Marijuana is dangerous. It certainly is not as dangerous as other Schedule I controlled substances; it’s not as dangerous as heroin, clearly, but it’s still dangerous. It’s not good for you. I wouldn’t want my children smoking it. I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do it. So I don’t frankly see a reason to remove it. We, by the way, support, and have supported, a lot of legitimate research on marijuana, fully behind that; I think it’s great. If we come up with a medical use for it, that would be wonderful. But we haven’t.
The truth is that the DEA has always fought against research on the medical uses of cannabis plants and the Schedule 1 classification is part of what helps them to prevent research in this country. Luckily, countries like Israel are not so irrational about this particular plant and research goes on there. We know that it's better than pharmaceutical alternatives at preventing seizures, we know it reduces intraocular pressure in glaucoma patients, we know that it stimulates appetite and helps prevent nausea in chemo and other patients, and I have seen with my own eyes how it relieved my father's pain from bone cancer when powerful opiates were failing at that job and only serving to cause constipation.

But we'll elect another Demopublican drug warrior anyway and we'll continue to get lying appointees like this one anyway.

 

tuk tuk Joe

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miscut jib said:
miscut jib said:
So you are casually indifferent to the human cost of these things or just blinded by your ideology? I mean - every fuckwhit knows there's pot and there's other drugs and only a disingenuous troll would link say, heroin, to weed.
I agree that drug warriors are disingenuous trolls for putting both heroin and marijuana in Schedule 1. They're saying that marijuana has no known medical use against a mounting pile of evidence that it is medically useful and they are saying it has a high potential for abuse, higher than Schedule 2 drugs like cocaine, morphine and many other powerful drugs.

It's too bad that they act this way, but there's nothing wrong with pointing out that the two are linked in our laws.
So - once again you choose to respond disingenuously. Is it pathological with you? Is this some crusade? Why is it ever little political internet shithole has someone fulfilling the same role?

meth/ice - now there's a fine ruiner of lives, property and communities.

How about crack? Seems silly little political internet shithole needs to get a grip... :D

CIA involvement in Contra cocaine trafficking
 

Pertinacious Tom

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miscut jib said:
miscut jib said:
So you are casually indifferent to the human cost of these things or just blinded by your ideology? I mean - every fuckwhit knows there's pot and there's other drugs and only a disingenuous troll would link say, heroin, to weed.
I agree that drug warriors are disingenuous trolls for putting both heroin and marijuana in Schedule 1. They're saying that marijuana has no known medical use against a mounting pile of evidence that it is medically useful and they are saying it has a high potential for abuse, higher than Schedule 2 drugs like cocaine, morphine and many other powerful drugs.

It's too bad that they act this way, but there's nothing wrong with pointing out that the two are linked in our laws.
So - once again you choose to respond disingenuously. Is it pathological with you? Is this some crusade? Why is it ever little political internet shithole has someone fulfilling the same role?

...
No, my response is accurate. If knowing and stating facts about the war on some drugs is pathological to you, I guess your weird definition fits me. Yes, it is a sort of a crusade. I was committed to ending the drug war before I saw how cannabis oil helped my father when he was dying of bone cancer. What I saw increased my resolve and it does have a spiritual component now, so I guess it is a crusade. In answer to your last, I'm not sure why you are here.

 
G

Guest

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random said:
Not a lot to think about Tom. Must be a graph out there somewhere to plot the rise of private prisons and the increase in prisoners? I've been sipping moonshine, so I'll step away from the keyboard on that one.
The increase in prisoners has also likely significantly contributed to the US's drop in violent crime since the 70s & 80s. I do agree with Tom that low level pot users don't need to be locked up. I would prefer we reserve that space for real violent criminals and folks who abuse gun rights.

(Oooops, I probably just turned Tom's drug thread into a gun thread :p )

 

Pertinacious Tom

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Low level users? So we should lock up people who have, say, a pound?

Here's a transplant from the Anarchists Affected By Cancer thread for you to ponder...

42 Medical Studies that Prove Cannabis Can Cure Cancer

Below is a list of 42 studies showing that marijuana cures cancer, categorized by the type of cancers being cured in each study. This extensive list only includes articles from credible scientific journals. It is important to note that we're not only talking about reducing the side effects of chemotherapy, we're talking about completely curing the cancer itself!

Cures Brain Cancer
http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v95/n2/abs/6603236a.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11479216
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/21/17/6475.abstract
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/308/3/838.abstract
http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/10/1/90.abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17952650
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1576089/
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/37948 http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/64/16/5617.full

Cures Mouth and Throat Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20516734
Cures Breast Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20859676
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18025276
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21915267
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/early/2006/05/25/jpet.106.105247.full.pdf+html
http://www.molecular-cancer.com/content/9/1/196 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22776349
http://www.pnas.org/content/95/14/8375.full.pdf+html
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/13/6615.abstract
http://endo.endojournals.org/content/141/1/118.abstract#fn-1

Cures Lung Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22198381
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21097714
http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v27/n3/abs/1210641a.html

Cures Uterine, Testicular, and Pancreatic Cancers

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/13/6748.abstract

Cures Prostate Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12746841?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3339795/?tool=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22594963

Cures Colorectal Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22231745
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19442536
http://safeaccess.ca/research/pdf/MD_AndersonCancerStudy.pdf
http://gut.bmj.com/content/54/12/1741.abstract

Cures Ovarian Cancer

http://www.aacrmeetingabstracts.org/cgi/content/abstract/2006/1/1084

Cures Blood Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12091357
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16908594
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.23584/abstract
http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/70/5/1612.abstract

Cures Skin Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12511587

Cures Liver Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21475304

Cures Biliary Tract Cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19916793

Cures Bladder Cancer

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/803983

Cures Cancer in General

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12514108
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15313899
Fuck cancer, and fuck drug warriors in the ass with a cactus.
Well, we lost my dad today.

In the past year, cannabis extract has helped him with his cancer. Relieved pain better than anything the doctors gave him, plus helped his appetite and ability to sleep. He reported weird dreams.

So for those who may be on this road, here's what to do. You get a pound of weed (be careful, but it won't be hard to do.) Get a gallon and a half of 191 proof grain alcohol. Blend the cannabis to dust, mix with booze, stir, and strain. Boil the alcohol out of the mixture. You'll have gooey tar. A blob the size of a grain of rice will do wonders.

That's all for today from my file of things I know, but should not.

 
G

Guest

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"Low level" as in drug type, not quantity. Hell, grow a whole pot field in your backyard for all I care.

 

Pertinacious Tom

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miscut jib said:
So you are casually indifferent to the human cost of these things or just blinded by your ideology? I mean - every fuckwhit knows there's pot and there's other drugs and only a disingenuous troll would link say, heroin, to weed.
Did you happen to follow the link in post 37?

The former head of the DEA thought heroin and marijuana are equally dangerous. Such agency heads serve at the pleasure of the President. So if her views displeased Obama, he could have fired her for being such a fuckwit.

Replacing Michele Leonhart, who had incredibly laughable views, Acting Administrator Chuck Rosenberg claimed that “heroin is probably not more dangerous than marijuana.”
Leonhart was fired over a prostitution scandal because we're uptight about sex but Obama tolerated her fuckwit views on cannabis plants.

Even as Mr. Obama expressed guarded support for allowing states to experiment with legalizing marijuana, Ms. Leonhart has remained a staunch opponent. She refused during a 2012 hearing on Capitol Hill to say whether she believed that marijuana was less dangerous than crack cocaine, methamphetamine or heroin, saying that “all illegal drugs are bad.”
 

Pertinacious Tom

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Speaking of dangerous fuckwits at the DEA...

They're checking "private" medical records just to see whether someone has committed a crime. Because, you know, checking such things without reasonable suspicion is OK in the context of the drug war.

The problem is this: The medical board has authority to issue “administrative subpoenas,” as they’re called, because it’s in the business of administering the medical industry. The DEA isn’t. It’s in the business of criminal investigations, which can be hindered by the Fourth Amendment.
 

Pertinacious Tom

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Bill Bennett still thinks attacking the supply of drugs will work.

Still wrong, in other words.

...Bennett and Walters' reasoning is impeccable: If there were no heroin, no one would be using it. "The heroin epidemic is inflicted upon us by criminal acts that produce an abundant supply of inexpensive drugs," they write. "Stopping these criminal acts will stop the epidemic."

Sounds simple, doesn't it? But while it is easy enough to "attack the supply," it is quite a bit harder to have a noticeable impact on it. You might surmise as much from the fact that the government has been attacking the supply of heroin since 1914, but the drug has never been cheaper or more plentiful.

The basic problem, as drug policy scholars such as Peter Reuter have been explaining for years, is that imported drugs acquire most of their value after arriving in this country. Hence seizing them en route or destroying them at their source does not impose much of burden on traffickers, who treat such losses as a routine cost of doing business. Since the cost is low compared to the street value, its impact on the retail price (or on purity) is generally imperceptible. That means throwing more money at attacking the supply is a highly inefficient way of discouraging consumption.

But Bennett and Walters—who served in the first and second Bush administrations, respectively—claim their supply-side approach was successful. Is that true? Not according to a 2013 analysis by Dan Werb of the Urban Health Research Initiative in Vancouver and four other researchers. "Between 1990 and 2007," Werb and his colleagues reported in the online journal BMJ Open, "the purity of heroin and cocaine, and the potency of cannabis herb, in the US increased, while the inflation-adjusted and purity-adjusted retail street prices of these three drugs declined."
 

Pertinacious Tom

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Look out, bakers and brewers. You just know this is going to result in calls to DO SOMETHING about the terrible yeast problem. Darn hippie scientists.

In August, researchers announced they had genetically engineered yeast to produce the powerful painkiller hydrocodone. Now comes the perhaps inevitable sequel: Scientists have created yeasts that can make important constituents of marijuana, including the main psychoactive compound, tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC.

Synthetic versions of THC are available in pill form under brand names like Marinol and Cesamet; they are generally used to treat nausea, vomiting and loss of appetite caused by H.I.V. infection or cancer chemotherapy. Genetically modified yeast could make THC in a cheaper and more streamlined way than traditional chemical synthesis.

Using yeast could also shed light on the clinical usefulness of cannabis-derived compounds. Marijuana is increasingly embraced as medicine, yet there is limited evidence that it is effective against many of the conditions for which it is prescribed. Researchers hoping to separate fact from wishful thinking will need much better access to marijuana’s unique constituents. Modified yeast may provide them....
 

slatfatf

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It amazes me how little traction this thread gets and how the gun threads generate page after page day after day. The low hanging fruit in stopping gun violence, or any violence, is ending the stupid war on drugs. It is the war on drugs, more than any other thing, which contributes to:

1) conflicts between the police and community

2) high incarceration rates for the poor, which disproportionately affects African Americans and Hispanics

3) which then results in dead ending any escape of poverty for those who carry the scarlet letter of a drug conviction

4) gang and turf wars over territory which then catches innocent people in the crossfire

5) the money which drives illegal trafficking in arms which then flood the battlefield in the war on drugs

This, of course, does absolutely nothing to address the aberrations and outliers in gun violence which capture all the headlines, but it would actually save a lot of lives, would result in an improved quality of life for tens of millions of people, would offer a path out of poverty for millions of people who are trapped there, and offer the type of hope that chokes off the feed pump to gang violence. It would not just be "doing something" it would be doing something positive that would benefit all of us, or at least all of us who do not derive power and wealth from continuing this stupid unwinnable war.

 

Pertinacious Tom

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It amazes me how little traction this thread gets and how the gun threads generate page after page day after day. The low hanging fruit in stopping gun violence, or any violence, is ending the stupid war on drugs. It is the war on drugs, more than any other thing, which contributes to:

1) conflicts between the police and community

2) high incarceration rates for the poor, which disproportionately affects African Americans and Hispanics

3) which then results in dead ending any escape of poverty for those who carry the scarlet letter of a drug conviction

4) gang and turf wars over territory which then catches innocent people in the crossfire

5) the money which drives illegal trafficking in arms which then flood the battlefield in the war on drugs

This, of course, does absolutely nothing to address the aberrations and outliers in gun violence which capture all the headlines, but it would actually save a lot of lives, would result in an improved quality of life for tens of millions of people, would offer a path out of poverty for millions of people who are trapped there, and offer the type of hope that chokes off the feed pump to gang violence. It would not just be "doing something" it would be doing something positive that would benefit all of us, or at least all of us who do not derive power and wealth from continuing this stupid unwinnable war.
I would add to your list:

6) erosion of privacy rights. The drug war has set numerous precedents unfavorable to our rights when it comes to permissible searches, technologies for surveillance and their (lack of) oversight, etc.

7) erosion of property rights. As detailed in the FAIR Act thread.

But the drug war concentrates power in government and provides a profit center for private prisons, law enforcement unions, and other interest groups.

As for the lack of interest, it's hard to get partisan Dems interested in reducing government power, especially when there's a D in the White House and we're talking about devolving that power all the way down to the individual, not just a lower level of government. So that leaves partisan Republicans, who sometimes like reducing government power but can't stand it if someone smokes a joint instead of drinking a shot of liquor.

So if you take away the partisan Dems and partisan Repubs from this place, what are you left with? Me, mostly.

But you said the G-word, so maybe this thread will attract some interest now and maybe people will stop voting for drug warriors. And maybe I'll start reeling in a fish with every cast. Hey, it COULD happen.

 
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