Emirates Team New Zealand.

Was a fun listen. No reactions?
Ok, Pete says etnz are essentially a technology company with a sailing background, illustrated by the hydrogen zero & landsailing projects - yes they appear to be commercialy awake, that can only be a good thing.

Landsailing project is independently funded - there may be an opportunity to advance their ac campaign with information gained during testing, trialing & racing - it circumvents the protocol, but what can you do?.

Etnz are well enough resourced in terms of funding & personnel to win ac37 - and should do so.

The plan is to bring Pete & Co into the ac program on a more fulltime basis as boats are launched - this makes sense, sailgp is providing excellent racing practice for the team in the meanwhile.

Phil Robertson to possibly join etnz - this can only be a good thing. If trained up to skipper an ac75, it will provide etnz with real choice & options for ac/sailgp alike as we move ahead .
(We may even win some sailgp races)
 

Forourselves

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After all the bitching and moaning about Saudi Arabia's human rights track record, after recent days events, the US is no better, but hey, thats okay, thats completely fine. Its much more fun to hate on those dirty Saudi's right?
 

enigmatically2

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After all the bitching and moaning about Saudi Arabia's human rights track record, after recent days events, the US is no better, but hey, thats okay, thats completely fine. Its much more fun to hate on those dirty Saudi's right?
There is no way you would have known, but I have again spent time in the last few days elsewhere bemoaning US racism and sexism.

Nevertheless, it is something of a stretch to say they are no better. If a woman is raped in much of the US, they may not be able to get an abortion. Get raped in KSA and you can get whipped and imprisoned.

E.g https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/nov/17/saudiarabia.international
 

Forourselves

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There is no way you would have known, but I have again spent time in the last few days elsewhere bemoaning US racism and sexism.

Nevertheless, it is something of a stretch to say they are no better. If a woman is raped in much of the US, they may not be able to get an abortion. Get raped in KSA and you can get whipped and imprisoned.

E.g https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/nov/17/saudiarabia.international
Yet you don’t actively call for boycott of sailing events in the US. Time to put your money where your mouth is.
 

enigmatically2

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Yet you don’t actively call for boycott of sailing events in the US. Time to put your money where your mouth is.
I wasn't aware that ANBZ was trying to host in US? So what is there to campaign against. As for SailGP, their events are in Illinois (Chicago) and California (SF) where abortion is still legal.

And US is nowhere near as bad as KSA in any respect as I have pointed out
So I'm being consistent by not campaigning against holding events there. Unlike you
 

The_Alchemist

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Ok, Pete says etnz are essentially a technology company with a sailing background, illustrated by the hydrogen zero & landsailing projects - yes they appear to be commercialy awake, that can only be a good thing.

Landsailing project is independently funded - there may be an opportunity to advance their ac campaign with information gained during testing, trialing & racing - it circumvents the protocol, but what can you do?.

Etnz are well enough resourced in terms of funding & personnel to win ac37 - and should do so.

The plan is to bring Pete & Co into the ac program on a more fulltime basis as boats are launched - this makes sense, sailgp is providing excellent racing practice for the team in the meanwhile.

Phil Robertson to possibly join etnz - this can only be a good thing. If trained up to skipper an ac75, it will provide etnz with real choice & options for ac/sailgp alike as we move ahead .
(We may even win some sailgp races)
You are giving way too much credibility to ABNZ. As an organization they have some well developed application experience in simulating foiling sailboats, but unfortunately that could very quickly be for naught if they lose this cup. Their major sponsors are all associated with AC sailing and the local NZ/world profile that comes with that racing. Grant will lose his international leverage for hosting the AC and he has burned most of the NZ bridges for sponsorship. If ABNZ loses this cup, there is a very strong possibility that they will no longer exist (no show - no dough).

As for the hydrogen zero. Nobody considers that a major technological advancement or even a boat with any real practical purpose. Toyota is helping fund it to get some publicity for H2 as a fuel source, but there are alternatives that are 10% of the cost and are better engineered.

As for the land speed project. Again, Toyota is helping to fund this, but it is not a program that can support the typical AC team of 50-90 engineers. ABNZ is the first to acknowledge that they have a lot to learn about how to set-up, tune and run the vehicle. Even if they have designed the perfect land speed craft, they have to learn the correct tuning and wait for the exact weather conditions. It took Greenbird about 10 years to get it right. The chance that ABNZ will be able to break the record in the very limited time frame they have is quite low. I would give them at most a 10% chance of having all of the cards fall in place and beat the record.

So, in summary, ABNZ is not commercially awake. They only exist because of advertising dollars based upon performance in the AC. They do not produce any products that give them a source of revenue and neither the hydrogen zero or the land speed project changes that.

No AC, No ABNZ
 

Gissie

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No AC, No ABNZ
This is why the team has pissed me off. If they had stayed and given it a burl in Auckland the team could have survived losing. Throwing the toys out of the cot because there wasn't an unlimited cash pile when things are turning to shit was a bad thing. Everyone else was having to change direction to survive and they wanted the circus to carry on as usual.

Once the cup is list, the team will go the same way and never be trusted enough for a future resurrection. Just a footnote in the cup history on how to fuck up a good thing.
 
You are giving way too much credibility to ABNZ. As an organization they have some well developed application experience in simulating foiling sailboats, but unfortunately that could very quickly be for naught if they lose this cup. Their major sponsors are all associated with AC sailing and the local NZ/world profile that comes with that racing. Grant will lose his international leverage for hosting the AC and he has burned most of the NZ bridges for sponsorship. If ABNZ loses this cup, there is a very strong possibility that they will no longer exist (no show - no dough).

As for the hydrogen zero. Nobody considers that a major technological advancement or even a boat with any real practical purpose. Toyota is helping fund it to get some publicity for H2 as a fuel source, but there are alternatives that are 10% of the cost and are better engineered.

As for the land speed project. Again, Toyota is helping to fund this, but it is not a program that can support the typical AC team of 50-90 engineers. ABNZ is the first to acknowledge that they have a lot to learn about how to set-up, tune and run the vehicle. Even if they have designed the perfect land speed craft, they have to learn the correct tuning and wait for the exact weather conditions. It took Greenbird about 10 years to get it right. The chance that ABNZ will be able to break the record in the very limited time frame they have is quite low. I would give them at most a 10% chance of having all of the cards fall in place and beat the record.

So, in summary, ABNZ is not commercially awake. They only exist because of advertising dollars based upon performance in the AC. They do not produce any products that give them a source of revenue and neither the hydrogen zero or the land speed project changes that.

No AC, No ABNZ
You didn't mention anything about what they make through patents and IP they license to other teams, and the marine industry.
 

Stingray~

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Ok, Pete says etnz are essentially a technology company with a sailing background
I bet that design team would be very well paid by other AC aspirants were they available. IP rights could be an issue, not sure how that works with the current example of Botin moving from AM to ARB. But technology marches on, so it may be an evolutionary game regardless what you did last time.

Core Builders is interesting, they have done all kinds of off-shoots even including for space.
 

dg_sailingfan

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I rate the Chance that Team New Zealand wins again in 2024 to about 95 %.

And the Reason is that they have the most innovative Design Team.

During AC34 they came up with a new Innovation which was FOILING. They were the 1st Team to get their Boats out of the water 2012 in Auckland, they were the first ones to showcase upwind foiling & roll tacks in these new AC72's and everyone else was playing catch up and OTUSA won only by the skin of their teeth and because of the many resources Larry had.

During AC35 they again came up with a new Innovation which was the Cyclors & the X-Box Controller GAshby held in his hands.

And during AC36 I think it was the Double Twin-Skin Mainsail and how to use it that brought them eventually the victory.

Judging the innovative thinking of their Design Team I am pretty convinced they will come up with an innovation again which will propel them to victory.

To win the America's Cup you need a Design Team that has an "Out-Of-The-Box-Thinking and Mindset" and neither of the four announced Challengers have that. They will design what's already proven but expect a different Result. Not happening. The F1 Collaborations between INEOS/Mercedes Applied Science & Alinghi/Red Bull Technologies will turn out to be more harmful & snake ice.

Challengers need to find a Magic Bullet and as long as Dan Bernasconi is the Design Head of the Kiwis the Challs won't win.
 

The_Alchemist

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You didn't mention anything about what they make through patents and IP they license to other teams, and the marine industry.
What IP or patents? Can you give me any specific examples? I search the world and NZ patent sites for ETNZ and Daniel Bernasconi and did not find any patents.

Remember, the AC is place where can't patent your designs. All of the other teams have designed their own versions of the AC75 without any royalty rights...

Also, they have not done anything that can not be worked around in other means to avoid any IP issues. The land speeder is ABNZ's copy of the Greenbird design.
 

The_Alchemist

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I rate the Chance that Team New Zealand wins again in 2024 to about 95 %.

And the Reason is that they have the most innovative Design Team.

During AC34 they came up with a new Innovation which was FOILING. They were the 1st Team to get their Boats out of the water 2012 in Auckland, they were the first ones to showcase upwind foiling & roll tacks in these new AC72's and everyone else was playing catch up and OTUSA won only by the skin of their teeth and because of the many resources Larry had.

During AC35 they again came up with a new Innovation which was the Cyclors & the X-Box Controller GAshby held in his hands.

And during AC36 I think it was the Double Twin-Skin Mainsail and how to use it that brought them eventually the victory.

Judging the innovative thinking of their Design Team I am pretty convinced they will come up with an innovation again which will propel them to victory.

To win the America's Cup you need a Design Team that has an "Out-Of-The-Box-Thinking and Mindset" and neither of the four announced Challengers have that. They will design what's already proven but expect a different Result. Not happening. The F1 Collaborations between INEOS/Mercedes Applied Science & Alinghi/Red Bull Technologies will turn out to be more harmful & snake ice.

Challengers need to find a Magic Bullet and as long as Dan Bernasconi is the Design Head of the Kiwis the Challs won't win.
Agree that ABNZ has been creative, but their main advantage in AC36 was in knowing the new boat design better (they wrote it) an had much more time to work on it. There were several innovations on the challenger boats that ABNZ adapted into their design.

You are severely under estimating the creativity of the other design teams.
 

Stingray~

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But his separate design company does not fund ABNZ

My search was for his name, so it would have come up no matter the company it is assigned to. (just like my patents come up under my name...)
Sure, I believe you.

My thought was that Bernasconi's company may own IP that ABNZ then pays him for the right to use but that's just a complete guess. Iirc then in the past year that company's name came up in an article that related to the development of a foiler in Italy; may have been a collaboration with Persico.

edit: may have been thinking of this https://sumtozero.com/news/
 
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