Emirates Team New Zealand.

Forourselves

Super Anarchist
9,953
2,361
New Zealand
^^The ONLY "intent" of the Deed of Gift can only be taken by face value, by the words expressly stated in the Deed. "This Cup is donated upon the conditions that it shall be preserved as a perpetual Challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries"
The fact that it has, and continues to evolve, does not take away from the fact, that the ONLY "intent" that can be taken seriously, is this intent. Any other "intent" is purey subjective, and depends entirely on a persons point of view. The only intent that matters, is the intent clearly stated by Schuyler upon donation of the Cup itself.

Now you might think the intent stated by Schuyler is "quaint" and only for "gullible people" but the fact is, no matter whether you like it or not, this is the ONLY intent of the Deed that matters. Your opinion of the "intent" is as irrelevant as anyone elses, no matter how important you think you are to this online forum.
 
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Stingray~

Super Anarchist
10,396
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PNW
Vanderbilt didn't give a damn about getting paid. Same was true for Ellison in the AC33 DoG Match.

If GD is NOT in this for money then he should retire from at least the ACE the side of it. But if money IS the reason the main reason GD is in it, then the coming moves could be revealing..

If you want to go purely commercial, then a SailGP event model is what you should instead pursue - an event with a completely different purpose. A commercial, franchised based thing instead of what the Deed proscribes.
 
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Forourselves

Super Anarchist
9,953
2,361
New Zealand
Vanderbilt didn't give a damn about getting paid. Same was true for Ellison in the AC33 DoG Match.

If GD is NOT in this for money then he should retire from at least the ACE the side of it. But if money IS the reason the main reason GD is in it, then the coming moves could be revealing..

If you want to go purely commercial, then a SailGP event model is what you should instead pursue - an event with a completely different purpose. A commercial, franchised based thing instead of what the Deed proscribes.
Makes no sense. Dalton isn't in it for the money, if he was, he surely would've already retired by now, or at least gone to another team that can pay him A LOT MORE than Team NZ could ever pay him while doing a LOT LESS WORK.

The guy is a multi millionaire. Pete and Blair are millionaires, Dean Barker is a millionaire, most AC sailors are, or at least were millionaires.

They don't HAVE to do it. They do it, because they want to. They want the bragging rights.

If Dalton never does another AC, he's most certainly in a position to die a multi millionaire. Its not about the money.

Dalton wants to be the CEO of a team that will be the FIRST team to pull off a 3 peat. And he wants to do it while flying a Kiwi flag. He does it because he can. Because he still has something to offer to the sport, to his team, and to NZ.

Pete and Blair do it because they want to test themselves against the worlds best. They represent NZ, because they are passionate Kiwi's, something they have stated on multiple occasions. They could no doubt, sail for probably any team on any circuit, anywhere in the world today, yet they come back to Team NZ, a team that may have a relatively large budget (although other teams do have larger budgets) but a team that has to work, scratch and scrape for every cent they have. They could sail for anyone, anywhere, but they choose to sail for NZ. Dalton could go anywhere in the world, to any team, but he stays with Team NZ because he's a Kiwi through and through.

Money is irrelevant to these guys. Money is a resource, a means that allows them to compete against the best. No, they won't have any mortgage issues post AC, but they also choose to be where they are.
 

trt131

Super Anarchist
1,588
318
As amazing as the Black Caps dominating everybody to win the World Test Championship, as amazing as how much ETNZ dominated everyone in the last 2 Americas Cups, as amazing as the AB's dominating everybody all of the time.
Black Caps did not dominate everybody, the Aussies thrashed every time they played them and the only got to the final because of an Aussie slow over rate. The Abs dominated all the time, I dont think so. Its time you moved out of Tauranga and went to see the big wide world.
 

Sailbydate

Super Anarchist
11,352
3,064
Kohimarama
If GD is NOT in this for money then he should retire from at least the ACE the side of it. But if money IS the reason the main reason GD is in it, then the coming moves could be revealing..
I'm sure GD is used to fuckwits telling him what he should and shouldn't do. And speculating about his motives for this and that.

Just one point though - if you're so talented, maybe you should be taking him on with your own AC team? Just sayin.
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
10,396
2,685
PNW
I'm sure GD is used to fuckwits telling him what he should and shouldn't do. And speculating about his motives for this and that.
Chill.

Am guessing that given what happened last time with the very conflicting ACE vs ETNZ money interests, when GD ran both, that they will fix that problem this time. Again, it is a widely-held view.

If GD's motive is not to make personal money out of ACE, then we will see good independence implemented, nothing internecine.
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
10,396
2,685
PNW
And if he doesn't give up control of ACE, he's a crook, looking to make money? Outstanding.
Am not saying he's a 'crook' but the allegation certainly was there last time, spending public money in ways that MBIE and others wanted allocated to the event expenses instead. Am sure he can make plenty of money through commissions off the commercial sponsorship he raises, fine by me, perfectly normal. And to be honest, I do admire the guy and the whole ETNZ team greatly, am happy if they win again, 3-Peat!

But this ACE thing was a problem, I'd like to see a clean separation from the ACE budget and Team budget, for all kinds of reasons this time. There are ACE/ETNZ budget separation rumors, well intended but ones that are hopefully not true in the motivational details.

The historical Vanderbilt link above makes obvious that there was no 'ACE' consideration given to anything.
 
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Kiwing

Super Anarchist
3,309
512
Bay of Islands
SbD Stingray has been harping on showing his anti-Grant bias for ever and a day. A few people have tried to point that out to him but he can't see it. Every now and then he posts some good stuff.
I like looking at his Youtube choices some of then are real fun. Like Sabastian Lobe's hill climb video.
 

Forourselves

Super Anarchist
9,953
2,361
New Zealand
Am not saying he's a 'crook' but the allegation certainly was there last time, spending public money in ways that MBIE and others wanted allocated to the event expenses instead. Am sure he can make plenty of money through commissions off the commercial sponsorship he raises, fine by me, perfectly normal. And to be honest, I do admire the guy and the whole ETNZ team greatly, am happy if they win again, 3-Peat!

But this ACE thing was a problem, I'd like to see a clean separation from the ACE budget and Team budget, for all kinds of reasons this time. There are ACE/ETNZ budget separation rumors, well intended but ones that are hopefully not true in the motivational details.

The historical Vanderbilt link above makes obvious that there was no 'ACE' consideration given to anything.
"Allegations" proven to be FALSE. "Allegations" you keep going on and on and on about, even though you know they were proven to be false.

The Deed doesn't make provision for independence. Infact quite the opposite.

The event should be run by the defender however they see fit.
 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
16,534
1,392
South Coast, UK
Vanderbilt didn't give a damn about getting paid. Same was true for Ellison in the AC33 DoG Match.

If GD is NOT in this for money then he should retire from at least the ACE the side of it. But if money IS the reason the main reason GD is in it, then the coming moves could be revealing..

If you want to go purely commercial, then a SailGP event model is what you should instead pursue - an event with a completely different purpose. A commercial, franchised based thing instead of what the Deed proscribes.
Yet in another recent post in this thread, you say that what the DoG proscribed is now a dead letter and that you like what it's become. I don't see how you can hold both opinions at the same time.

AFAIK GD is not independently wealthy. Of course he wants to make money out of the AC - both personally and for the team - and I see nothing wrong with that. Nor does it follow that is his only motivation. Most of us do things for more than one reason.

As for Ellison, by AC35, it was abundantly clear that money factored into his thinking. Otherwise the event would have been in SF.
 

Rennmaus

Super Anarchist
10,479
2,010
For peeps who don't care about ETNZ you seem to spend a lot of time reading and commenting about them. Perhaps give this thread a miss in future.
I'm still mildly interested in the AC, and ETNZ is a part of it last time I looked, but the emotional attachment is gone.
Thank you for telling me what I might want to read, I wouldn't know otherwise.
 

The_Alchemist

Super Anarchist
2,722
1,482
USA
The nationalism in the Deed is quaint in the modern world, the AC is no longer a contest between the yacht design expertise between nations that it was intended to be, the technology and research race has moved to space and the multiverse and elsewhere. Nationality has been reduced to the commercialization of the AC events, the selling of it to gullible fans plus a few faces on the boat and their accents.

But I do think that 'culture' as in language and connections does still matter in these campaigns to a degree. The Challs for AC 37 are reasonably 'hetero' that way - LR again with all those Italians, AM increasingly so since jettisoning Botin and going with Drummond instead, and especially with the deeply British Ineos. The French team will likely be highly French-flavored too, if they do actually build a V2 boat. Unlike ETNZ, I bet that any of those Challs if/when they win AC37 will NOT hold the AC38 Cup offshore.

The design and racing are top-notch and a fascinating subject for me, despite all that nationality debate. Let's see who can win starts and hit 54 knots safely this time! I hope whoever wins does it with class this time. It is just air but so far Alinghi looks to have a pretty damn classy setup.
But many of the casual AC fans do consider nationalism important. It is the same thing that drives the huge audiences for the Olympics. People want to root for the team that has their flag on the uniform. It adds to the drama, just don't dig too deep into what makes them your team.
 
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