Emirates Team New Zealand.

smackdaddy

Super Anarchist
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SmackDab, Middle
Design - but only sort of. It did something they didn't think about. That's VERY typical of many engineering failures. Things break because of load cases you didn't anticipate.

If you do your analysis properly on a bunch of load cases it is straightforward to design the structure to take these loads.

It's very easy to say "OK if the boat stuffs it's nose it will take XX seconds to slow down so that's YY g's and it's underwater 1.4m so that's an extra hydrostatic pressure to add". Then design a structure that withstands that.

It's much harder to say "OK the boat does a nosedive and at the same time rounds up and stuffs the bow sideways and the jib maybe fills with water too as it tries to come up". BECAUSE they didn't think about that particular load case.

"Oh we didn't think Bruce would drop the foil at just the wrong time to catch a tip on a whale and the whole boat does a reverse backflip and lands upside down...."

Please. If you are a designer involved with this embarrassment of a boat and you didn’t see this coming, you are an absolute idiot and DO NOT deserve to be involved at this level of the game.…



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Zonker

Super Anarchist
10,209
6,400
Canada
I'm not involved in this design. But with something as dynamic as a fully foiling sailboat it is hard to anticipate all potential scenarios. To suggest otherwise is naive.
 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
10,209
6,400
Canada
Judging by the videos and the acceleration plots they show I'll go out on a limb and say this crash was 20-30% more acceleration than they saw on the full scape boat impacts and took this structure just above it's design load.
A LOT more laterally than their largest loads on the AC75. A very fast spin out.

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smackdaddy

Super Anarchist
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620
SmackDab, Middle
C’mon Zonk. That is a joke of a “data set”. How do you think the forces of the mule crash above several years ago (one of countless similar crashes in the same mode as we just saw with this 40) - would compare? How do you think the forces in Patriot’s sinker of a crash would compare?

That graph is nothing but PR spin on a clearly inferior design with this 40. I’ll grant you that one can never fully predict the forces. But firstly, if designers really are relying on force data from one 75’ boat in mild conditions as the specs for a 40’ boat intended for the private market and a much wider range of conditions - they are negligent designers. Secondly, when you’ve seen the same exact crash mode over and over and over across multiple iterations of this design - you simply have no excuse for your “market ready” boat breaking apart when that same crash mode occurs. Period.
 
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enigmatically2

Super Anarchist
3,976
2,047
Earth
... who was very rarely stable :D
On this subject, years ago when I was visiting Sydney (2003 rugby world cup ahem), I walked around the arboretum there.

I was delighted to note that the plaque on ine tree read
"This here's the wattle, the emblem of our land. You can stick it in a bottle, your can hold it in your hand".
Great to see that sense of humour amongst all the more serious plaques
 

lex1233

New member
20
8
Please. If you are a designer involved with this embarrassment of a boat and you didn’t see this coming, you are an absolute idiot and DO NOT deserve to be involved at this level of the game.…



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Mate its the America’s cup and breakages have been a part of the cup for a very long time. If you can’t understand that these boats are built right on the edge of failure then you don’t understand much. Your trying to imply that some of the best designers in the game are idiot’s. I think it’s pretty obvious who the idiot is.
 

The_Alchemist

Super Anarchist
2,982
1,620
USA
Mate its the America’s cup and breakages have been a part of the cup for a very long time. If you can’t understand that these boats are built right on the edge of failure then you don’t understand much. Your trying to imply that some of the best designers in the game are idiot’s. I think it’s pretty obvious who the idiot is.
Mate, it was the AC40 production model available for purchase by the general public! It is not their AC75 that is racing in the AC. It was a "finished" AC40 that was being "sold" to all of the teams and anyone who ante up the money. ABNZ decided it was not necessary to do any real world testing before it was sold.
 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
I'm not involved in this design. But with something as dynamic as a fully foiling sailboat it is hard to anticipate all potential scenarios. To suggest otherwise is naive.
Regardless of whether you can anticipate every scenario, you wouldn't and indeed probably couldn't mitigate the negative consequences of all or even most of them without building an absolute pig of a boat, or to borrow Ben Ainslie's term for it: "Rita".
 

lex1233

New member
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8
Mate, it was the AC40 production model available for purchase by the general public! It is not their AC75 that is racing in the AC. It was a "finished" AC40 that was being "sold" to all of the teams and anyone who ante up the money. ABNZ decided it was not necessary to do any real world testing before it was sold.
What about the original 49er rigs , laser bottom sections ect I know they’re rigs and not bows but one design parts for the masses that where known for failure. They could of been made stronger and heavier at the beginning but that would of hindered the performance. I’m not sure if you have done any wing foiling before but the trend of shorter and stubby board’s isn’t just so it can fit in the car. When foiling weight fwd has a massive impact on the characteristics of performance , they would of been trying to limit the weight they put fwd to a bare minimum. Not sailing related but there are plenty of videos on the net of Lamborghini’s catching on fire and they are sold to the public. Thing is if your buying something that is at the utmost level of performance failure is never going to be a complete surprise and is just part of the game.
 
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lex1233

New member
20
8
It’s okay Alchy. You are, of course, spot on.

It’s just a newb trying to look tough by going after the lion. It’s cute.
I think by calling yourself “ the lion “ sums up your personality. It was a bit of a newb thing for me to engage with the subs troll tho. I still find it hilarious that a bunch of keyboard warriors think they know better then America’s cup professionals.
 
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Ex Machina

Super Anarchist
1,237
556
New Zealand
I think by calling yourself “ the lion “ sums up your personality. It was a bit of a newb thing for me to engage with the subs troll tho. I still find it hilarious that a bunch of keyboard warriors think they know better then America’s cup professionals.
Especially the ones that sail 1970s 4kt pumpkin seeds
 


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