Zeusproject
Anarchist
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Emirates Team New Zealand.
- Thread starter Salty Seacock
- Start date
Rushman
FIIGS
Sailbydate
Super Anarchist
My understanding is that this is OK for the Defender when the Challenger Series gets underway.
uflux
Super Anarchist
I don’t think they will get much out of 2 boat testing the big boats. I think more likely 2 boat race simulation with B2 and hawk. With hawk flying on auto mode to reduce crew
To be honest I'd forgotten that they were allowed both boats during the Challenger Series, my apologies.
barfy
Super Anarchist
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I love the idea..but I reckon waste of resources when you can race a rib. Worked last time, why waste shore crew, maintenance crew, chaseboats.
The_Alchemist
Super Anarchist
Does the Team not seem to be applying a Leapfrog approach to development?
They have 2 - soon to be 3, platforms available - but to honour the agreement of no 2 boat testing till after challenger series begins - it is unlikely to see even the mule line up against Te Aihe. You could probably find a tricky Lawyer to argue that it does not represent 2 boat testing in the terms of one boat not being "in class" but that would just create a distracting shit storm of the type that the team has a history of avoiding. More so, because the spy's from other teams will have a vague handle on the performance envelope that each boat has reached - to then Directly line up the two boats against each other will help to confirm those subtle nuances that each represents - so not simplistically looking at top speed or even straight line speed - the more important details are take off characteristics, direction, speed and acceleration profiles, then manoeuvrability and VMG characteristics - none of which will the team want to post or signal to their competition any sooner than necessary. Instead, if it is deemed worthy, Chaseboats can be set to mimic the competition. Even Te Kahu wouldn't produce the volume or height of wing wash to be a useful comparision. They also have a sucessful track record of development in solo mode. More to give away than gain IMHO.
But the Team can continue the Leapfrog approach that both design evolution and boat handling bring to working these boats up. Has software been tweaked? What about changing gear ratios and hydraulic line sizes and all the thousand other details that no one here can even envison? Without looking at the big ticket items which are Foils, Hull and Rig.
We continue to see references from articles, that hiding their hand will play strong til the others cannot have enough time to react. Realistically I believe that will be how it plays out. How many more rounds of upgrade will Te Aihe and Te Kahu go through is a more interesting conversation. Te Aihe is about to be relaunched with an upgrade package, call that B-1.75. Will Te Kahu get a further development round to upgrade from its B-1.5 status to come back as B-1.85? Or will it be better to focus on and work up B-2?
More realistically, rather than headline upgrades with obvious and structural changes to the boats, new parts are getting evaluated all the time, and represent incremental development that even the insiders of the team would struggle to pick - and then just to really mess with peoples minds, they only need to change a paint scheme or colour of the draft stripes to fake a new round of foils or sails and keep the competition guessing whether the new graphics are actually new parts...... Just don't expect to see any Blue Buckets appear - ever :blink:
They have 2 - soon to be 3, platforms available - but to honour the agreement of no 2 boat testing till after challenger series begins - it is unlikely to see even the mule line up against Te Aihe. You could probably find a tricky Lawyer to argue that it does not represent 2 boat testing in the terms of one boat not being "in class" but that would just create a distracting shit storm of the type that the team has a history of avoiding. More so, because the spy's from other teams will have a vague handle on the performance envelope that each boat has reached - to then Directly line up the two boats against each other will help to confirm those subtle nuances that each represents - so not simplistically looking at top speed or even straight line speed - the more important details are take off characteristics, direction, speed and acceleration profiles, then manoeuvrability and VMG characteristics - none of which will the team want to post or signal to their competition any sooner than necessary. Instead, if it is deemed worthy, Chaseboats can be set to mimic the competition. Even Te Kahu wouldn't produce the volume or height of wing wash to be a useful comparision. They also have a sucessful track record of development in solo mode. More to give away than gain IMHO.
But the Team can continue the Leapfrog approach that both design evolution and boat handling bring to working these boats up. Has software been tweaked? What about changing gear ratios and hydraulic line sizes and all the thousand other details that no one here can even envison? Without looking at the big ticket items which are Foils, Hull and Rig.
We continue to see references from articles, that hiding their hand will play strong til the others cannot have enough time to react. Realistically I believe that will be how it plays out. How many more rounds of upgrade will Te Aihe and Te Kahu go through is a more interesting conversation. Te Aihe is about to be relaunched with an upgrade package, call that B-1.75. Will Te Kahu get a further development round to upgrade from its B-1.5 status to come back as B-1.85? Or will it be better to focus on and work up B-2?
More realistically, rather than headline upgrades with obvious and structural changes to the boats, new parts are getting evaluated all the time, and represent incremental development that even the insiders of the team would struggle to pick - and then just to really mess with peoples minds, they only need to change a paint scheme or colour of the draft stripes to fake a new round of foils or sails and keep the competition guessing whether the new graphics are actually new parts...... Just don't expect to see any Blue Buckets appear - ever :blink:
Woolfy
Anarchist
Can't help thinking we'll see B2 before any upgraded version of Te Kahu, if we see an upgraded Te Kahu at all. It's now less than six months before the Christmas regatta, I don't see how they'll have the time to build B2 test it, do upgrades, test those, do more upgrades, test those etc. etc. and upgrade Te Kahu then test those upgrades and so on. If we see Te Kahu on the water again any changes will be minor.. Foil tip and flap changes yes but major changes nah.
Whether B2 is used during the Christmas regatta is probably the mute question.
Whether B2 is used during the Christmas regatta is probably the mute question.
i doubt we will see any B2's at the xmas regatta
all teams will be holding that trick close to their chest
the idea is to introduce the design/technology as late as possible so other teams simply don't have time to replicate if better.
especially with ETNZ. i imagine the plan is to race B1 in xmas regatta, launch B2 just before challenger series so its ready to 2 boat trial while the challenger teams are busy with match racing
all teams will be holding that trick close to their chest
the idea is to introduce the design/technology as late as possible so other teams simply don't have time to replicate if better.
especially with ETNZ. i imagine the plan is to race B1 in xmas regatta, launch B2 just before challenger series so its ready to 2 boat trial while the challenger teams are busy with match racing
barfy
Super Anarchist
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I can't imagine any team will want to risk an unknown quantity and jump into the xmas regatta with b1. There will be no rebuilding one of these beasts one month, two, three months before the match to chase another teams gains. Try to put some pie warmers on, maybe,but not hull changes like Ben's bolt on spine. Think bda, it worked for etnz to have the final weapon launched, 5 months prior to the match? That's what we'll see, b2 on Sept and never look back.
terrafirma
Super Anarchist
The_Alchemist
Super Anarchist
Ex-yachtie
Super Anarchist
I think it's pretty clear in the Protocol that "two boat testing" only applies to AC75s:
11.1. limitation on the number of yachts:
a) Each Competitor shall be entitled to build a maximum of two hulls, which may be different between them;
b) Each Competitor may only modify the exterior shape of each of its hulls as determined when the respective hull was launched (“Original Hull Surface”) by a maximum of 12.5% of its area (the method for monitoring this restriction will be specified in the Class Rule); See Protocol Amendment 02.
c) Each Competitor shall always be entitled to alter the structure of the hull and to repair such hull, including bringing it back to its Original Hull Surface after unintended damage;
d) No Competitor shall acquire, sail or test any Surrogate Yacht as defined in this Protocol and the AC75 Class Rule;
e) The interpretation, calculation and enforcement of the above limitations on the modification of the Original Hull Surface and the determination as to whether a yacht is a Surrogate Yacht or not shall be the sole responsibility of the Rules Committee whose decision shall be final. Any measurement required by the Rules Committee to make a decision under this Article shall be carried out on its behalf by the Measurement Committee; and See Protocol Amendment 02.
All that means the context of "yacht" in this section is an AC75, not test boat under 12 m, which are not limited in number and not restricted in any way by the protocol. If the section applied to test boats too, then a) means all teams except Stars and Stripes have already built and sailed their two hulls.
So the following only applies to AC75s as well:
f) Each Competitor shall only sail one of its yachts at a time except the Defender who will be entitled to sail two yachts from the time of the first scheduled race in the CSS.
The Protocol does use "AC75 Class yacht" and "yacht" seemingly interchangeably, which does create the possibility of misinterpretation.
If the intention had been prevent all two boat testing, then subsection (f) could have included yachts of any length, or from any team. Even §15 only prevents different teams sailing AC75s against each other, there is no restriction on sailing test boats against each other, either from the same team or others.
Whether there's any point to sailing an AC75 against a test boat, and whether any useful information can be gleaned from watching them, is another matter. It wouldn't take much to dither results so that observers learned nothing beyond the obvious.
Tornado-Cat
Super Anarchist
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