Not necessarily an excuse. There's no doubt that COVID-19 resulted in the cancellation of the Italian and Portsmouth ACWS events and imposed a great deal of inconvenience to the Challengers in restricting what they can do. For ACE, Mayo&Calder were specifically charged with securing sponsors and licensing to top up the needed funding for the event, including broadcasting agreements. I suspect they have not been able to deliver any significant sponsors and additional funding in these uncertain times in the middle of a world-wide pandemic, with big corporates tightening their belts as economies contract. Ferwer ACWS events would have made the broadcast deal a tough sell...Hawke said:
Emirates Team New Zealand.
- Thread starter Salty Seacock
- Start date
I don't know why you keep making yourself miserable hanging around here
. Most of us do not give a fuck about your whining...really!!Franklyspeaking
New member
I'm no expert but I think their maybe "structural" issues in the way that ACE was only billed 3m for 6m worth of work..... Particularly when the CEO is on both sides of the deal.
I think that is covered here : https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/feature-articles/taking-action-against-price-fixing-accountants#:~:text=With price fixing continuing to,to spot anti-competitive conduct.&text=Price fixing is a form,significant penalties and banning orders.
I think that is covered here : https://comcom.govt.nz/news-and-media/feature-articles/taking-action-against-price-fixing-accountants#:~:text=With price fixing continuing to,to spot anti-competitive conduct.&text=Price fixing is a form,significant penalties and banning orders.
Uh, PRETTY sure that Americans invented English, the same English your whole country is using, FOR FREE, so all's y'all can shut right up.
I was wondering when “it’s all a Bertelli plot to bring the AC to Cagliari” would come up
smackdaddy
Super Anarchist
This is obvious. Your 300 posts of cut-paste legal analysis and definitive proclamations - leading to...this.Hawke said:
You're learning.
Excerpt from
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/122065522/americas-cup-organisers-need-to-win-back-the-publics-trust-by-making-changes-at-the-top
The central and most serious allegation is that Team NZ has effectively siphoned off funds meant for the event into its own coffers.
Team NZ strongly deny any accusations that public funds have been misappropriated. Dalton contends this money, reportedly in the realm of $3m, is to reimburse the syndicate for work its staff have done for the event, and has appeared as part of its regular reporting to MBIE for more than a year.
That may well be the case. But the arrangement in the first instance appears to have been one agreed upon between Grant Dalton and Grant Dalton.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/122065522/americas-cup-organisers-need-to-win-back-the-publics-trust-by-making-changes-at-the-top
The central and most serious allegation is that Team NZ has effectively siphoned off funds meant for the event into its own coffers.
Team NZ strongly deny any accusations that public funds have been misappropriated. Dalton contends this money, reportedly in the realm of $3m, is to reimburse the syndicate for work its staff have done for the event, and has appeared as part of its regular reporting to MBIE for more than a year.
That may well be the case. But the arrangement in the first instance appears to have been one agreed upon between Grant Dalton and Grant Dalton.
smackdaddy
Super Anarchist
This gets back to what I mentioned earlier as the crux of the problem: If ETNZ pulled money out of ACE - for whatever reason - and we know that ACE has been primarily funded by MBIE to date via that hosting fee (public money) - what other money has come into ACE via private partnerships/sponsorships that is separate and apart from that fee? Remember the language in the HVA regarding ETNZ's financial responsibility TO ACE for any shortfalls.
This brings up the issues of the purported "loans", ACE's likely difficulty in finding more sponsorship (i,e, - non-public) money as it was obligated to do, etc. How much non-public money did/does ACE really have? And did ACE also pay the CoR for that same services if this work was tied to the Class design, protocol, etc.?
It doesn't look good.
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JALhazmat
Super Anarchist
Forourselves
Super Anarchist
Blah blah blah. The media loves to tell the public what they should be thinking and what they should be doing. As I said, the media have now all but given up on the release of the final report and now turned their attention to what it looks like for GD to be overseeing both entities. Who gives a crap? No one cared about it before this came along. As for “siphoned money” surely if you do the work, you get paid to do the work. That seems to be what’s happened. If it’s always been part of reporting to MBIE there is no issue. But again, the media hatchet job is in full swing “the public shouldn’t be thinking it’s okay” because we all have to be told how to think right? Cos we can’t do it for ourselves. What it looks like is irrelevant. Dalton is responsible, together with LR for holding America’s Cup 2021. He is also tasked with defending the cup at the same time.
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smackdaddy
Super Anarchist
Says "Forourselves" - who spends all his time telling people here how to think - even in the face of countless facts that clearly contradict his drivel.
Dude clearly needs a bustle.
waterborne
New member
My 2 cents worth on the AC so called scandal.... (for anyone interested).
I think the 2 x guys employed to run ACE, started running into trouble more than a year ago when the amount of challengers failed to materialise and the budgets started to shrink and not be the lucrative huge event that was once envisaged….... These guys also have a questionable track record and started to see the event failing to reach the numbers expected and that they were seemingly on (yet another) hiding to nothing…..
Grant Dalton is the CEO of both entities namely to control and firstly put ETNZ in the "best possible position" to defend the cup, but also (secondly) to make sure the event is properly handled and something we, as Kiwis can be proud of. I think that the 2 guys (ACE) and Grant started to have difficult meetings over budgets early on and I think the R+D payment of $ 6m owed to ETNZ (for the class rule, R + D and setting up the event in the early stages) became a sticking point….. Eventually Grant as CEO forced the payment of $ 3million ACE to ETNZ. (BTW - This is not the scammed payment that went missing…... And it was never a loan despite the spin they tried to put on it).
All the while, the disgruntled event organisers had been going behind Grants back and reporting to MBIE and others?? what they assumed to be the "goings on/decisions" that they did not agree to or upset about and indeed exaggerated and presented as fact things that were not true to build a case lets say….... Everyone who knows Grant, knows loyalty is his absolute No1 requirement. By doing what they did, they went out on a limb against him. Bad move…....
During this period, it sounds like a large payment was made from ACE to the TV production company that turned out to be a scam of sorts. I am sure details will be presented to show this in due course. Of course it can be argued that the scam was a set up/inside job, but I don't think so. Time will tell, but I think it has been coincidental, a side issue and not what the real issue is all about. Other than I can imagine a few words were spoken at the time it happened that may have hurt a few egos around the place lets say…..
Of course ETNZ does not want very commercially/sporting sensitive information about it's inner workings/funding publicly released - Rightly so. You can argue it's government money, but the government entered into an agreement where ETNZ and ACT ran the event without any control/input as to the finer detail of expenditure allocations. Of course they have the right to demand clarity to show no frauds have been committed with Government money and the Government has every right to investigate and see this for themselves. However the contents of any investigative report has to remain confidential from the public to protect the team going forward. This is easy to understand. All that needs to be published is a summary of facts.
I think these ACE guys got stuck on a road to nowhere that they didn’t have control over and subsequently have been caught out undermining ETNZ and the ACE by trying to present themselves/save themselves in a good light (whistleblowers) and try and show Grant Dalton up as the bad guy…... I think it's going to backfire on them of course. However the surrounding media and hype isn’t doing the AC event of ETNZ any good. At the end of the day though, Its a distraction only and yet another Americas cup story to go in the books. They will move on……. It wont affect much, apart from help sell a few more newspapers…..
I think the 2 x guys employed to run ACE, started running into trouble more than a year ago when the amount of challengers failed to materialise and the budgets started to shrink and not be the lucrative huge event that was once envisaged….... These guys also have a questionable track record and started to see the event failing to reach the numbers expected and that they were seemingly on (yet another) hiding to nothing…..
Grant Dalton is the CEO of both entities namely to control and firstly put ETNZ in the "best possible position" to defend the cup, but also (secondly) to make sure the event is properly handled and something we, as Kiwis can be proud of. I think that the 2 guys (ACE) and Grant started to have difficult meetings over budgets early on and I think the R+D payment of $ 6m owed to ETNZ (for the class rule, R + D and setting up the event in the early stages) became a sticking point….. Eventually Grant as CEO forced the payment of $ 3million ACE to ETNZ. (BTW - This is not the scammed payment that went missing…... And it was never a loan despite the spin they tried to put on it).
All the while, the disgruntled event organisers had been going behind Grants back and reporting to MBIE and others?? what they assumed to be the "goings on/decisions" that they did not agree to or upset about and indeed exaggerated and presented as fact things that were not true to build a case lets say….... Everyone who knows Grant, knows loyalty is his absolute No1 requirement. By doing what they did, they went out on a limb against him. Bad move…....
During this period, it sounds like a large payment was made from ACE to the TV production company that turned out to be a scam of sorts. I am sure details will be presented to show this in due course. Of course it can be argued that the scam was a set up/inside job, but I don't think so. Time will tell, but I think it has been coincidental, a side issue and not what the real issue is all about. Other than I can imagine a few words were spoken at the time it happened that may have hurt a few egos around the place lets say…..
Of course ETNZ does not want very commercially/sporting sensitive information about it's inner workings/funding publicly released - Rightly so. You can argue it's government money, but the government entered into an agreement where ETNZ and ACT ran the event without any control/input as to the finer detail of expenditure allocations. Of course they have the right to demand clarity to show no frauds have been committed with Government money and the Government has every right to investigate and see this for themselves. However the contents of any investigative report has to remain confidential from the public to protect the team going forward. This is easy to understand. All that needs to be published is a summary of facts.
I think these ACE guys got stuck on a road to nowhere that they didn’t have control over and subsequently have been caught out undermining ETNZ and the ACE by trying to present themselves/save themselves in a good light (whistleblowers) and try and show Grant Dalton up as the bad guy…... I think it's going to backfire on them of course. However the surrounding media and hype isn’t doing the AC event of ETNZ any good. At the end of the day though, Its a distraction only and yet another Americas cup story to go in the books. They will move on……. It wont affect much, apart from help sell a few more newspapers…..
Forourselves
Super Anarchist
Perhaps separating the work from the defence was the original intent, but Given Emirates Team NZ is an extension of the original Team NZ who have held two defences and hosted 2 events in the past, there may have been ETNZ personnel who were qualified and inexperienced enough to carry out such work. And given the Covid environment, and closed borders, Dalton may have felt instead of trying to get internationals through the borders, it was easier and quicker to just use his own personnel.
Dalton as CEO - like any other CEO - reports to a Board in ACE and in ETNZ who have a legal fiduciary duty to ensure that standard corporate governance and operating procedures are respected and complied with. Payments by ACE to ETNZ for services rendered have appeared as standard expense items in the regular reports prepared and submitted by ACE since 2018 to the appropriate partners and entities entitled to the reports under the HVA agreement - otherwise, progress payments from MBIE would not be made! That the ACE Board did not raise any concerns is a matter likely to have already been addressed and resolved under the Companies Act. Bottom line is the buck stops at the Board.
As for the services for which ETNZ were paid the discounted rate of $3-mil, it is perfectly legitimate for ETNZ design resources and personnel involved in the design of the new AC75 to be charged to the event managing entity - ACE. All entry fees are paid to ACE, not to ETNZ as representatives of RNZYS. The design and free-issue components for the AC75 are defined in the Class Rule, and do not belong to ETNZ - the were contractors to ACE, and they deserve to be paid..
Mayo&Calder instigated this whole mess because they failed to deliver on their overly-optimistic hyperbolic presentations which won them the event management gig.
As for the services for which ETNZ were paid the discounted rate of $3-mil, it is perfectly legitimate for ETNZ design resources and personnel involved in the design of the new AC75 to be charged to the event managing entity - ACE. All entry fees are paid to ACE, not to ETNZ as representatives of RNZYS. The design and free-issue components for the AC75 are defined in the Class Rule, and do not belong to ETNZ - the were contractors to ACE, and they deserve to be paid..
Mayo&Calder instigated this whole mess because they failed to deliver on their overly-optimistic hyperbolic presentations which won them the event management gig.
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JALhazmat
Super Anarchist
Aww you actually believe it, how cute.Hawke said:All of them and some more to come.
desprit
Member
Yes definitely agree that that is the best educated guess as to what has gone on. We should have the answer soon.
