Emirates Team New Zealand.

MaxHugen

Super Anarchist
image.png
Starting to smell a bit like clickbait in a few of these YT channels now...

 

MaxHugen

Super Anarchist
Holy hell those look small!

Question, on the LR thread there was a post regarding how LR is able to achieve their high mode through variations of the foil flaps and main. If LR can point higher 1-2° higher, how much faster would ETNZ need to be? 
Let's say LR has a boat speed of 30 knots, at a TWA of 45°.  Their VMG is therefore 21.21 kn.

If NZ were sailing at 46°, and were also achieving a VMG of 21.21 kn, their boat speed would be 30.54 kn.

Of course, this does not take into account the teams' ability to spot and take advantage of gusts, wind shifts etc.

 

Jandals

Member
90
54
Ottawa
Let's say LR has a boat speed of 30 knots, at a TWA of 45°.  Their VMG is therefore 21.21 kn.

If NZ were sailing at 46°, and were also achieving a VMG of 21.21 kn, their boat speed would be 30.54 kn.

Of course, this does not take into account the teams' ability to spot and take advantage of gusts, wind shifts etc.
Very good. Thanks! 

Presumably ETNZ would be aware of LRs ability to point high and if they can't match their height would be comfortable with their boat speed to lead or get around them. 

 
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Thewas

Member
257
168
Holy hell those look small!

Question, on the LR thread there was a post regarding how LR is able to achieve their high mode through variations of the foil flaps and main. If LR can point higher 1-2° higher, how much faster would ETNZ need to be? 
Consider also that we're talking match race here. Even if you make up for the lower TWA you'll need quite a lot of room to tack in front of the other boat. 
I for one think that having the same VMG of a boat that can point higher will never be enough in a match race.

 

The_Alchemist

Super Anarchist
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Consider also that we're talking match race here. Even if you make up for the lower TWA you'll need quite a lot of room to tack in front of the other boat. 
I for one think that having the same VMG of a boat that can point higher will never be enough in a match race.
The one that can’t point as high covers much more distance and hits the boundaries sooner and should have to do more tacks.

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,166
1,293
Wellington
The one that can’t point as high covers much more distance and hits the boundaries sooner and should have to do more tacks.
In any situation where both boats are foiling, I expect ETNZ to point higher by virtue of lower drag foils.

The question for me then becomes can ETNZ foil at as low wind conditions as LR. Given they have an extra 3 sqm down low, I suspect the answer is yes.

ETNZ will be dominant across the wind range.

 

The_Alchemist

Super Anarchist
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Holy hell those look small!

Question, on the LR thread there was a post regarding how LR is able to achieve their high mode through variations of the foil flaps and main. If LR can point higher 1-2° higher, how much faster would ETNZ need to be? 
In theory, AM should have had the best of both worlds.  They had smaller foils (similar to NZ) and anhedral foils to point higher (never got as good as LR).  AM lacked the control of the main and the right tuning.

 

uflux

Super Anarchist
It says a lot that ETNZ started their design path with the largest area foils in the fleet and ended up with the smallest foils. The LR foils look to be copies of ETNZ original B1 foil concepts.....ETNZ has been there and done that and moved on  :rolleyes:

 

amc

Anarchist
533
102
Auckland
Not necessarily, depending on how they are laying to the next rounding mark...

In fact, sailing slightly higher could see you having to do an extra track to lay vs sailing slightly lower...
Also if you can move across the track faster at the same vmg more options to break cover should exist. 

 

45Roller

Super Anarchist
1,085
375
Ireland
In theory, AM should have had the best of both worlds.  They had smaller foils (similar to NZ) and anhedral foils to point higher (never got as good as LR).  AM lacked the control of the main and the right tuning.
Sure thing, some serious vibration in the wheel when turning too, DB always seemed to be really fighting it

 

Apterix

Member
119
100
USA
NZ's foils are ~ half flap, which I assume is how they are able to make small foils fly in bugger all wind - albeit it with lots of trim and a massive drag penalty. Once they're up to speed they can decrease the trim and fly more efficiently.  But, at what cost?  How much distance will they give up in the tacks and gybes?  Will they be able to point as high as LR?  

This to me is the awesome bit about having such an open design rule.  And, having two very different expressions of the rule racing against each other in the final.  We will, in the not too distant future, see what works and what doesn't.   

 

The_Alchemist

Super Anarchist
2,848
1,541
USA
Not necessarily, depending on how they are laying to the next rounding mark...

In fact, sailing slightly higher could see you having to do an extra track to lay vs sailing slightly lower...
I thought of saying "could" on the tacks, it all depends on the course.  I doubt there would be any time that the higher course would require more tacks (assuming no wind shifts). 

Just for grins, I plotted a 45 vs a 44 degree course on the current AC course:

Screen Shot 2021-02-28 at 3.18.59 PM.png

edit: we were talking about upwind, I should not have added the downwind part to the plot.

 
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