Emirates Team New Zealand.

alphafb552

Super Anarchist
2,912
622
Fryslan boppe!
I doubt that they consider it "big cheque".

I have no idea how much they pay, but would imagine it's about $40 million which split over 3 or 4 years is relatively fuck all.
the 'fuck all' in marketing is not measured in absolute numbers, but by any potential returns gained by the sponsoring.

If the returns don't match the investment, they quit, easy as that

 

winchfodder

Super Anarchist
1,837
354
Carolina, USA
Honestly, if in the position as defender I would simply reject any challenge from Alinghi.

Ernie made Lazza look like a fucking saint.
I am lost in history.

Its interesting to hear the likes of TE and Hamish Ross extolling the wonders of the IAAC class regattas in San Deigo, Auckland and Valencia being up there with the 12mR, when TE managed to destroy the class to play to Lazza's ego by wasting time and money on court leading to a ridiculous one sided tri vs cat competition. Since then the class has changed every Cup increasing cost and uncertainty, limiting the number of challengers. 

So who is the villain? For me Ernesto created an excellent event in Valencia and would have continued to build the class and the number of challengers if the ego and cash of Lazza had not stepped in.

Or have I got it all wrong?

 

strider470

Super Anarchist
I am lost in history.

Its interesting to hear the likes of TE and Hamish Ross extolling the wonders of the IAAC class regattas in San Deigo, Auckland and Valencia being up there with the 12mR, when TE managed to destroy the class to play to Lazza's ego by wasting time and money on court leading to a ridiculous one sided tri vs cat competition. Since then the class has changed every Cup increasing cost and uncertainty, limiting the number of challengers. 

So who is the villain? For me Ernesto created an excellent event in Valencia and would have continued to build the class and the number of challengers if the ego and cash of Lazza had not stepped in.

Or have I got it all wrong?
I think the Kiwis deeply hate him for having bought half their 2000 team to build Alinghi

 

alphafb552

Super Anarchist
2,912
622
Fryslan boppe!
I am lost in history.

Its interesting to hear the likes of TE and Hamish Ross extolling the wonders of the IAAC class regattas in San Deigo, Auckland and Valencia being up there with the 12mR, when TE managed to destroy the class to play to Lazza's ego by wasting time and money on court leading to a ridiculous one sided tri vs cat competition. Since then the class has changed every Cup increasing cost and uncertainty, limiting the number of challengers. 

So who is the villain? For me Ernesto created an excellent event in Valencia and would have continued to build the class and the number of challengers if the ego and cash of Lazza had not stepped in.

Or have I got it all wrong?
I think you have got it wrong Winch.

Rather than continuing along the line of Valencia, Bertarelli tried to make a complete powergrab by using a sham CoR, completely sidestepping all existing teams and basically trying to run the whole event by himself. 

When TE and LE objected and won their case to become recognized as the actual challenger, they approached EB to organize the event along IDENTICAL lines to AC32 (Valencia). EB then threw his toys out of the pram and refused to even try to achieve any form of mutual consent for AC33. This inevitably lead to the match along DoG lines, including both the type of boats and courses sailed.

The only reason that match turned out to be one-sided is the bold choices made by Team Oracle in going for the wing masted tri, rather than the conservative approach taken by Alinghi with A5

Thanks to that choice, and TNZ equally bold choice to build a foiling AC72, we now have the Cup we know today.

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
I think the Kiwis deeply hate him for having bought half their 2000 team to build Alinghi
correct, but for me even  more so for being such a cheating cunt. 

Lazza is a prize cunt in his own right, but he saved the AC from Ernie and put on a relatively fair event.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rennmaus

Super Anarchist
10,548
2,077
I am lost in history.

Its interesting to hear the likes of TE and Hamish Ross extolling the wonders of the IAAC class regattas in San Deigo, Auckland and Valencia being up there with the 12mR, when TE managed to destroy the class to play to Lazza's ego by wasting time and money on court leading to a ridiculous one sided tri vs cat competition. Since then the class has changed every Cup increasing cost and uncertainty, limiting the number of challengers. 

So who is the villain? For me Ernesto created an excellent event in Valencia and would have continued to build the class and the number of challengers if the ego and cash of Lazza had not stepped in.

Or have I got it all wrong?


I think you have got it wrong Winch.

Rather than continuing along the line of Valencia, Bertarelli tried to make a complete powergrab by using a sham CoR, completely sidestepping all existing teams and basically trying to run the whole event by himself. 

When TE and LE objected and won their case to become recognized as the actual challenger, they approached EB to organize the event along IDENTICAL lines to AC32 (Valencia). EB then threw his toys out of the pram and refused to even try to achieve any form of mutual consent for AC33. This inevitably lead to the match along DoG lines, including both the type of boats and courses sailed.

The only reason that match turned out to be one-sided is the bold choices made by Team Oracle in going for the wing masted tri, rather than the conservative approach taken by Alinghi with A5

Thanks to that choice, and TNZ equally bold choice to build a foiling AC72, we now have the Cup we know today.
Plus, Ernesto wanted to change the class after AC32. It was always good-bye to the IAAC after VLC.

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
the 'fuck all' in marketing is not measured in absolute numbers, but by any potential returns gained by the sponsoring.

If the returns don't match the investment, they quit, easy as that
As it has always been. 

However the original comment i responded to was clearly referring to the magnitude of the absolute  number which is why I addressed that.  

 

kiwin

Member
364
235
Auckland
I have talked to a number of ETNZ staff over the years. I have never heard spoken a single bad word regarding Dalton. He is an effective leader, well liked and respected by those who work with him. He is also amazingly good at bringing in sponsorship deals, and fully earns whatever his pay is with this talent alone. Who else could bring in the cash to keep TNZ afloat? Difficult when defending, but very difficult when challenging. 

 

winchfodder

Super Anarchist
1,837
354
Carolina, USA
No, it was a bigger displacement mono. I would need to dig deep in my archives to come up with a rendering, so maybe someone (Stingray?) is faster.
What were his arguments for dumping the IAAC class.

Make it more expensive to drive away challengers? 

Make it more spectacular?

He was bored with the IAAC's?

 

Rennmaus

Super Anarchist
10,548
2,077

winchfodder

Super Anarchist
1,837
354
Carolina, USA
The class was engineered to death. Millions were spent for a quarter knot improvement. They became boring and old-fashioned.

Here something about the AC class that never was:
https://www.americascup.com/en/social-news/58_AC90-THE-AMERICAS-CUP-CLASS-THAT-NEVER-WAS
Interesting. So it seems that LE was not so much trying to rescue the Cup from EB (who had conducted two series and for the first time made a profit and paid out to the challengers), but was fed up with losing and decided to just buy it?

 

Rennmaus

Super Anarchist
10,548
2,077
Interesting. So it seems that LE was not so much trying to rescue the Cup from EB (who had conducted two series and for the first time made a profit and paid out to the challengers), but was fed up with losing and decided to just buy it?
That can be one way to see it.
The other is that SNG agreed the new protocol with a made-up challenger CNEV (not having the annual regatta yet), and the new protocol was a template for control freakery. If Ernie had left the AC32 protocol in place, as requested by Larry - with or without the new class - and, just to be sure, allowed only a Deed compliant challenger to challenge, everything would have been fine. 

He made two mistakes:
1) Write a very lopsided protocol
2) "Choose" a non-compliant CoR, that opened the door for GGYC's/Larry's rogue challenge

The rest is history.

Ernie and his lawyers were so stupid that I hope, he'll stay out of the AC for good. Apparently, that won't happen, tho.

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
Whether ETNZ wins or loses it, I'm pretty sure in the long run GD will regret throwing away 20 years of good relationships with Luna Rossa and Bertelli, and switching alliances with characters like Ratcliffe.
Yep, this might be the biggest tragedy of this cup.

To be fair, nobody here knows for sure who really caused the rift and undoubtedly there is fault on both sides. However, knowing what we know of GD I suspect more blame lies with him than Bertelli.

Given all the help GD has received over the years, I would have hoped that he would remember this and not only been friendly but even a little accommodating towards them.

 

strider470

Super Anarchist
Yep, this might be the biggest tragedy of this cup.

To be fair, nobody here knows for sure who really caused the rift and undoubtedly there is fault on both sides. However, knowing what we know of GD I suspect more blame lies with him than Bertelli.

Given all the help GD has received over the years, I would have hoped that he would remember this and not only been friendly but even a little accommodating towards them.
Apart from trying to win the Cup in every legal way, (honestly that's why we are participating) I don't see why blaming Luna Rossa.

 

Forourselves

Super Anarchist
10,132
2,416
New Zealand
@Forourselves
 maybe I lost some comments, but I couldn't find anything from you regarding competing in the Match under Covid Level 2, and with exemption asked by none other than ACE for level 3. So let's talk again about Italian hounour and respect. You are allowed to search your previous comments on the subject. You are always so keen on throwing shit against Luna Rossa that I can't honestly understand you. We are, all of us, passionate supporters of our own teams, Kiwis and Italians, and we can  cheer the ones without necessarily spoiling the others. Of course this is Anarchy, and you are completely entitled to continue on your line, as I am, to call it bullshit when deserved. So my proposal (I don't want to marry you, eh :D ) is to bury the hatchet and enjoy together the beautiful races to come.
Would I prefer the match to be held under level 1? YES. Do we see LR push back when the match was postponed like they did when the final was to be postponed? NO. Did we see one post, one comment from Luna Rossa regarding sticking to rules and having the match go ahead on March 6th? NO. 

LR shot themselves in the foot. Thats the reality of it. You can go ahead thinking sunshine and rainbows if you like, that's your choice. But I'm calling Bullshit as I am entitled to do also. LR burned their bridges with every team this cycle.

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
Apart from trying to win the Cup in every legal way, (honestly that's why we are participating) I don't see why blaming Luna Rossa.
I'm not blaming them, simply saying that both parties will share some blame.

I've never known an argument where one side was 100% correct.

 

mauriciogfj

Member
228
122
Brazil
Agreed, 20 years of commitment are not discarded lightly. 

I would not be surprised if the differences are ironed out, and in the event of ETNZ maintaining the Cup, LR returns as Cor.

 

Latest posts




Top