Emirates Team New Zealand.

dg_sailingfan

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You are conflating two separate things. Prada sponsoring the CSS because nobody else would is not the problem. Never was. 

The problem is that ETNZ and ACE were for all intents and purposes the same organization. THAT is the conflict of interest. THAT is to be avoided in future. 
Wrong, COR36/LRPP acted in their self-interest and not in the interest of all the Challengers. ITUK & AM were never consulted in regards to the Wind Limits and ETNZ made that very clear in this Press Statement:
https://emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/news/427_CLARIFICATION-OF-NEXT-STEPS-FOR-THE-WIND-LIMITS-MATCH-CONDITIONS-DISPUTE-WITH-THE-CHALLENGERS.html
 

By way of background, the America's Cup Deed of Gift requires racing rules and conditions to be agreed by mutual consent between the Defender and Challenger but with the modern day America's Cup involving multi challengers this is  modified by the Protocol under which all teams enter.  Under the AC 36 Protocol, the Challenger of Record has the responsibility to represent all Challengers and that responsibility involves consulting with other Challengers before taking a position with the Defender on issues such as race conditions. 

The Defender does not deal with the other Challengers direct on such issues but works on the basis that the Challenger of Record is presenting the collective position of the Challengers when undertaking such negotiations, not just the view of its own sailing team, Luna Rossa. In fact, in the various negotiations Emirates Team New Zealand has had with the Challenger of Record there have been many practical examples where the COR has made specific reference to the views of the other Challengers when taking a particular stance.

Emirates Team New Zealand was therefore very surprised to learn that the current stance of the Challenger of Record in relation to wind limits does not reflect the collective position of all Challengers. The Defender's position on the Wind Limits is what is needed to ensure a quality event in Auckland for the benefit of the New Zealand public, international visitors and the world audience.

Enough said Mister Blitzkrieg!

And this is just one example! LRPP wanted "Wind Limits" changed for their own benefit without consulting the two other Challengers ITUK and AM!

 
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strider470

Super Anarchist
Arb Panel Rulings during the entire AC36 Cycle

http://noticeboard.acofficials.org/arbitration-panel

Look at all those Rulings (Most of them involved ETNZ & COR36/LRPP). The Italians played "Dirty" the whole way because they knew that they could not win on the water. Probably one of the Main Reasons they got dumped by ETNZ as CoR. Russell Green, the Legal Advisor of ETNZ must have grown tired of all the Legal Challenges COR36/LRPP put forward every time they disagreed with ETNZ!
this is farcical :D :D

Bold is bold

 

JALhazmat

Super Anarchist
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Now with Ineos naming sponsor and both COR and Defender funding I'm sure it will be much better :D
have INEOS been announced as naming sponsor yet then:)

 if they are I can assure you they will be just as fair and even handed as Prada were in their tenure so there is nothing to worry about eh?

 

strider470

Super Anarchist
have INEOS been announced as naming sponsor yet then:)

 if they are I can assure you they will be just as fair and even handed as Prada were in their tenure so there is nothing to worry about eh?
The beginning of the Ineos era is not quite promising, is it? Let's hope they will be as fair as you say, and I will have nothing to worry about

 

Fiji Bitter

I love Fiji Bitter
4,572
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In the wild.
And a nice touch to give every member of ETNZ a medal. 
And you think they would give a fuck about those stupid medals, they are going to hang them in the toilet.

No, Prada should have given them all a $2999 handbag, so that they could throw them ceremonisly into the public.

Louis Vuitton 1 - Prada 1, a Grenadier next.

 

dg_sailingfan

Super Anarchist
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582
Augsburg
I want to make this very clear: I have nothing against the Luna Rossa Sailing Team. They are fine people, yes that includes Spithill although I don't like him but their COR36 Organization namely Francesco Longaresi-Cattani, Alessandra Pandarese & Marco Mercuriali are "Spoiled Brats" during the entire AC36 Cycle and I will not change my Position on this.

 

Blitzkrieg9

Member
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Wrong, COR36/LRPP acted in their self-interest and not in the interest of all the Challengers. ITUK & AM were never consulted in regards to the Wind Limits and ETNZ made that very clear in this Press Statement:
https://emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/news/427_CLARIFICATION-OF-NEXT-STEPS-FOR-THE-WIND-LIMITS-MATCH-CONDITIONS-DISPUTE-WITH-THE-CHALLENGERS.html
 

By way of background, the America's Cup Deed of Gift requires racing rules and conditions to be agreed by mutual consent between the Defender and Challenger but with the modern day America's Cup involving multi challengers this is  modified by the Protocol under which all teams enter.  Under the AC 36 Protocol, the Challenger of Record has the responsibility to represent all Challengers and that responsibility involves consulting with other Challengers before taking a position with the Defender on issues such as race conditions. 

The Defender does not deal with the other Challengers direct on such issues but works on the basis that the Challenger of Record is presenting the collective position of the Challengers when undertaking such negotiations, not just the view of its own sailing team, Luna Rossa. In fact, in the various negotiations Emirates Team New Zealand has had with the Challenger of Record there have been many practical examples where the COR has made specific reference to the views of the other Challengers when taking a particular stance.

Emirates Team New Zealand was therefore very surprised to learn that the current stance of the Challenger of Record in relation to wind limits does not reflect the collective position of all Challengers. The Defender's position on the Wind Limits is what is needed to ensure a quality event in Auckland for the benefit of the New Zealand public, international visitors and the world audience.

Enough said Mister Blitzkrieg!

And this is just one example! LRPP wanted "Wind Limits" changed for their own benefit without consulting the two other Challengers ITUK and AM!
This is bullshit propaganda by ETNZ. Ineos/ BA acknowledge they were consulted.  The 3 Challengers could not agree on what they wanted and ultimately the decision is made solely between COR/D.  Nothing shady here at all. Once you have ALL the facts (and not just an ETNZ hit piece) you will see the truth 9f the matter. 

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/124211668/americas-cup-british-hit-by-new-wind-limit-and-sir-ben-ainslie-isnt-happy

 

dg_sailingfan

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This is bullshit propaganda by ETNZ. Ineos/ BA acknowledge they were consulted.  The 3 Challengers could not agree on what they wanted and ultimately the decision is made solely between COR/D.  Nothing shady here at all. Once you have ALL the facts (and not just an ETNZ hit piece) you will see the truth 9f the matter. 

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/124211668/americas-cup-british-hit-by-new-wind-limit-and-sir-ben-ainslie-isnt-happy
Hilarious from you! This was just before the Prada Cup Final. When the Wind Limits were first negotiated during the Period for the "Match Conditions" in December 2019 the other two Challengers were not included in those talks as ETNZ correctly pointed out in their January 9 2020 Press Release. Don't change the subject here!

 
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Blitzkrieg9

Member
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62
Hilarious from you! This was just before the Prada Cup Final. When the Wind Limits were first negotiated during the Period for the "Match Conditions" in December 2019 the other two Challengers were not included in those talks as ETNZ correctly pointed out in their January 9 2020 Press Release. Don't change the subject here!
WTF are you talking about?  The wind limits were only negotiated once. No concensus could be reached so it went into arbitration. Its all part of the same issue. If BA was consulted then BA was consulted. I'm sorry that ETNZ is publishing lies, but I will accept a direct statement from BA saying he was consulted over a statement from ETNZ saying that BA was not consulted.  Surely you must be trolling at this point. 

 

dg_sailingfan

Super Anarchist
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WTF are you talking about?  The wind limits were only negotiated once. No concensus could be reached so it went into arbitration. Its all part of the same issue. If BA was consulted then BA was consulted. I'm sorry that ETNZ is publishing lies, but I will accept a direct statement from BA saying he was consulted over a statement from ETNZ saying that BA was not consulted.  Surely you must be trolling at this point. 
No, they weren't. They were first negotiated during the "Negotiation Period" in 2019 and then they got amended for the Prada Cup Final. BA was only consulted before the Prada Cup Final but wasn't consulted back in 2019.

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6MTY2YTBjYTcyYzk5MWRhOQ

Wind Limit for the Prada Cup Final & America's Cup Match:

6.5 - 23 Knots (Date of Document 6th February 2020)

(INEOS TEAM UK & NYYC/AMERICAN MAGIC not consulted)

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6MmE4YmRhYjk5MmI3NWY2OQ

Wind Limit for the Prada Cup Final & America's Cup Match:

6.5 - 21 Knots (Date of Document 10th February 2021)

(INEOS TEAM UK consulted as Prada Cup Finalist)

 

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
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Yes, for between cycles. I figure $1-$1.2 mil a month retaining all 150 staff.

I don't disagree that $5 mil won't go far though, that's why I suggested 20.

A non sailing kiwi friend remarked how great it was the government was pitching in, I replied that $5 mil was like pissing into a 144 gallon drum thinking you could fill it.
Quite a jobs program. 

 

Blitzkrieg9

Member
220
62
No, they weren't. They were first negotiated during the "Negotiation Period" in 2019 and then they got amended for the Prada Cup Final. BA was only consulted before the Prada Cup Final but wasn't consulted back in 2019.

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6MTY2YTBjYTcyYzk5MWRhOQ

Wind Limit for the Prada Cup Final & America's Cup Match:

6.5 - 23 Knots (Date of Document 6th February 2020)

(INEOS TEAM UK & NYYC/AMERICAN MAGIC not consulted)

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6MmE4YmRhYjk5MmI3NWY2OQ

Wind Limit for the Prada Cup Final & America's Cup Match:

6.5 - 21 Knots (Date of Document 10th February 2021)

(INEOS TEAM UK consulted as Prada Cup Finalist)
Gotcha. I stand corrected. 

 

Priscilla

Super Anarchist
4,361
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Quite a jobs program. 
The total numbers drop as 45  of the 150 are boatbuilders not permanent employees.

AC Minister Stuart Nash if my hearing was correct initially talked of a $12m injection that got pedalled back to $5m which is sourced from funds already budgeted for but not spent from the AC36.

 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
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Agree with some posts since Thursday by Rennie, Strider, Hoom, Jaysper and others on several items, but especially on this point: 

Making pre-agreements about not an ACWS exhibition but an actual AC Match in the UK (or anywhere) between two Clubs, with a preagreement also about the following AC Match, is Deed illegal. The precedent would be for agreement to be reached over future Cups between two Clubs ‘forever’  - clearly an absurd idea. 

 
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Stingray~

Super Anarchist
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If $B Matteo is forcing GD to strongarm NZ for money, to save from his own poecketbook, well then GD needs to find a much better $B. :)  
 

We wouldn’t be facing all the crap to come had any other team won AC36. The current ETNZ funding model has failed, this game should (and mostly is) still be funded by real $B’s. 

 
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Kate short for Bob

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We wouldn’t be facing all the crap to come had any other team won AC36. The ETNZ funding model has failed. 
Isn't the only measure of success or failure in the AC is "Who holds the Cup?"  On that measure the ETNZ funding model has been an unequivocal success.  It has also enabled the development of a new class of boat that if I recall correctly was written off by posters such as yourself.

 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
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Isn't the only measure of success or failure in the AC is "Who holds the Cup?"  On that measure the ETNZ funding model has been an unequivocal success.  It has also enabled the development of a new class of boat that if I recall correctly was written off by posters such as yourself.
Bullshit, on both counts.

 


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