Emirates Team New Zealand.

167149

Super Anarchist
A virtuous woman is worth more than rubies.
has been known to hit the spot nicely............. at times

errrr----ummmm.jpg

 

fish7yu

Anarchist
505
631
Taiwan
I finally figured out why ETNZ loss AC34 in SF.......... they did not push the limits enough, only had a near capsize.

They really need the capsizes to win, like in AC35 and AC36.

13_AC34_ETNZgoingover_360_rdax_90.jpg

2d787682fdf1359ba06d6228e0cf8a21.jpg

AC35TNZAC50Capsize20170606_ac35live_gmr2988.jpg

m4210_170606-ac35-rp4149.jpg

yysw297394.jpg

yysw275973.jpg

1610423544237.jpg

team-nz-capsizes-while-racing-against-ineos-team-uk-in-americas.hashed.1b894b16.mobile.story.h...jpg

1598935794564.jpg

_methode_times_prod_web_bin_3cbfdbd0-543e-11eb-b0d0-071d11d2d557.jpg

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ex-yachtie

Super Anarchist
2,998
1,342
Auckland, NZ
The logic says that Air NZ should be the funding vector. the facilities are built this is about just the team really.

Covid is receding do we think Air NZ needs a plan for the future throwing 100s of millions into tourism marketing would be better spent on a massive marketing story. TANZ.

And as an aside make each team sell their boat/boats to new teams and allow only one new build for an AC in 2 years with a world series in each competitors country if wanted.

that would include Cowes lake Genève, New York,  etc.     
It would be nice to think that Air NZ could get naming rights, aiming at the tourism market, but I suspect they're getting their own government bail-out.  In some ways, Team NZ already does its bit for marketing New Zealand.  A  tourism focused sponsor would only add so much value.  If it were a New Zealand company, you're more likely to see a Fonterra or Rocket Lab.

In regard to selling boats, I wouldn't be surprised if ETNZ sell their current design, or even make aspects of it freely available.

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
I finally figured out why ETNZ loss AC34 in SF.......... they did not push the limits enough, only had a near capsize.

They really need the capsizes to win, like in AC35 and AC36.
Probably said in jest, but a large grain of truth in there.

When it came to boat design, aside from the idea of foiling, they were quite conservative.

I suspect that was because of what happened in 2003.

Those sorts of scars can haunt you.

 

strider470

Super Anarchist
Probably said in jest, but a large grain of truth in there.

When it came to boat design, aside from the idea of foiling, they were quite conservative.

I suspect that was because of what happened in 2003.

Those sorts of scars can haunt you.
Also Luna Rossa was too conservative this edition... apart some bold move like the dual helmsman and the hidden boom

 

Forourselves

Super Anarchist
10,129
2,416
New Zealand
Also Luna Rossa was too conservative this edition... apart some bold move like the dual helmsman and the hidden boom
I think due to the new class, the Challengers designed and built boats. Then they put those boats on foils, where Team NZ designed a complete package. The Team Nz design was essentially an exercise in drag reduction. In the hull in the foils and in the sail plan. The Challengers did what every other team has done before. Designed a boat and improved it over time. Team NZ had a fast package straight out of the box. They just had to work out how to race it properly.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

strider470

Super Anarchist
I think due to the new class, the Challengers designed and built boats. Then they put those boats on foils, where Team NZ designed a complete package. The Team Nz design was essentially an exercise in drag reduction. In the hull in the foils and in the sail plan. The Challengers did what every other team has done before. Designed a boat and improved it over time. Team NZ had a fast package straight out of the box. They just had to work out how to race it properly.
I think you're quite right

 
I don't think ETNZ were too conservative in 2013 - they designed a boat to the Rule, sail in 5 - 33knots - and had shown it to be capable of doing so.

ORTUSA and Artemis didn't and as a result the wind limits got dropped for safety reasons.

ETNZ ended up with their maxed out 4x4 racing a porsche.

They did run out of development ideas in the end (pie warmers, anyone?), but there was only so much you could do with the original platform they had designed to the original rule.

 

1eyedkiwi

Member
164
65
New Zealand
 Team NZ had a fast package straight out of the box. They just had to work out how to race it properly.
Agreed.  In some ways they were more like Oracle in 2013.  Also, if they had been a challenger this time round and had the benefit of more sailing etc, the score line in the AC would have been a repeat of Bermuda.

 

Ex-yachtie

Super Anarchist
2,998
1,342
Auckland, NZ
Now that is an interesting idea. Turning the 3D rocket engine printing technology to AC boat.
Alignment in terms of tech, yes.  Don’t the Southern Spars guys go and work at Rocket Lab when things are quiet?

Having said that, I suspect Rocket Lab have a very short client list.  Sponsorship is hardly going to bring in new customers.

 

Mozzy Sails

Super Anarchist
1,255
1,127
United Kingdom
I think INEOS would like to bring the AC75s to the Solent. But I doubt it has to be the actual match. More that they've lost out on a world series and a good showing on home waters would hopefully peak some wider interest.

Regarding a round the island race, whilst INEOS have sailed round before, it was in very light winds. I'm not saying they couldn't hold a race in this format with this class... but the boats would be purposefully built for that race and likely look quite different to the boats we've seen this cycle (unless they had a very narrow wind range). So, I think that's unlikely.

But also for Jim I'm not sure it's about widespread interest in the population, but more just the virtue of the challenge and the regard that is held for that within technically astute professions and industry. I do get the impression he is more interested in the challenge and process of attaining the goal, than he is in just the kudos of having whatever it is that is prize (this case the AC).

All that leads me to believe a Cowes (Solent) Cup match in 2022 is the least likely option and we're more realistically going to find ourselves back in Auckland. 

I think INEOS main aim in becoming CoR is to ensure the competition continues with continuity and regularity. Jim is clearly invested, and I think the set up believes that if they throw the right people, tech and money at it for long enough they will achieve the goal of winning. So the main threat to that is the Cup getting stuck in limbo or changing classes which increases the unpredictability which the previous UK campaigns have struggled with. 

In many ways, from a financial point of view bringing the competition to Europe is more beneficial to TNZ sponsors (+ potential sponsors). Plus maybe using it as a bargaining chip with NZL government. 

From TNZ perspective it's about getting a challenger who will keep things stable and invest enough to lighten the financial burden from TNZ and their own sponsors. 

For now it seems quite a well balanced relationship. I am sure that will change as things get competitive. 

 
I think INEOS would like to bring the AC75s to the Solent. But I doubt it has to be the actual match. More that they've lost out on a world series and a good showing on home waters would hopefully peak some wider interest.

Regarding a round the island race, whilst INEOS have sailed round before, it was in very light winds. I'm not saying they couldn't hold a race in this format with this class... but the boats would be purposefully built for that race and likely look quite different to the boats we've seen this cycle (unless they had a very narrow wind range). So, I think that's unlikely.

But also for Jim I'm not sure it's about widespread interest in the population, but more just the virtue of the challenge and the regard that is held for that within technically astute professions and industry. I do get the impression he is more interested in the challenge and process of attaining the goal, than he is in just the kudos of having whatever it is that is prize (this case the AC).

Agree. Jim regards it as a genuine challenge and he is not interested in a short cut

All that leads me to believe a Cowes (Solent) Cup match in 2022 is the least likely option and we're more realistically going to find ourselves back in Auckland. 

He has said clearly that the decision rests with NZ but he is open to a cup match in the Solent.

I think INEOS main aim in becoming CoR is to ensure the competition continues with continuity and regularity. Jim is clearly invested, and I think the set up believes that if they throw the right people, tech and money at it for long enough they will achieve the goal of winning. So the main threat to that is the Cup getting stuck in limbo or changing classes which increases the unpredictability which the previous UK campaigns have struggled with. 

Yes. The challenge requires a reasonably consistent pathway to attract Jim and other challengers. 4 entirely different boats for 4 successive cups has discouraged participation. Jim (and others I think ) realize that if the cup is going to attract good challengers, prepared to sustain several campaigns then there has to be a measure of continuity.

In many ways, from a financial point of view bringing the competition to Europe is more beneficial to TNZ sponsors (+ potential sponsors). Plus maybe using it as a bargaining chip with NZL government. 

From TNZ perspective it's about getting a challenger who will keep things stable and invest enough to lighten the financial burden from TNZ and their own sponsors. 

For now it seems quite a well balanced relationship. I am sure that will change as things get competitive.  :wub:
100% agree with this. + some comments in red

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
No doubt you have to go to the limit if you want to win
In the latest Mozzy video, the boys make the assertion that LR were too conservative with their design, which is quite obvious when viewed along side ETNZ's boat.

Was surprisingly close in the end given how conservative they were. 

 




Top