ePropulsion and Torqeedo experiences

I'm interested in hearing from folks that have either the ePropulsion or the Torqeedo outboards.

I have a 3000 pound keelboat.

How is the performance, reliability etc?

What kind of maintenance is required with these electric motors? Is it easy to find someone to repair them?

 
We are using the Torqueedo 2.0 RL on a 20,000 lb 8mR. (46' long)  We only use it for close quarters manoeuvring mostly, like leaving  and returning to harbour,  or to get out to the race course when wind is down. (BTW we do not have any other type of motor or engine installed)  We have one 24V battery and at 3kn we can go for about 15 miles.  We have the high thrust prop installed as well.

According to the specs we should not be doing this but it works for us.  On a lighter boat you should get longer range.  We have had little to no real issues with the Torqueedo but you do need to pay attention to the battery as there are occasional updates to the management system.  My only complaint would be that the bottom skeg and the prop are made from the same material Windex's are made from (LOL, not really but seem to be equally as fragile) and you do need to be careful putting in on and off the motor mount.

 

bgytr

Super Anarchist
5,083
690
I just ordered an epropulsion spirit 1.0 plus.  Should be here in a couple weeks, intend on using in my 9ft avon inflatable tender for my sailboat.  Will post how  it works when I get it.

Main thoughts was I didn't want gas cans on my sailboat, and usage would mainly be short trips back and forth to shore while anchored.

 

daan62

Super Anarchist
for the environment it doesn't matter... going electric is just moving the problems to the countries where the ingredienst of batteries are 'produced' and at the end of life the batteries are 'destructed' without asking how the charged electricity is generated.

(still wondering where all the non-recycable wind blades and solar panels will be stored... Africa?)

in my opinion a short term silly solution...

 
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daan62

Super Anarchist
for the environment it doesn't matter... going electric is just moving the problems to the countries where the ingredienst of batteries are 'produced' and at the end of life the batteries are 'destructed' without asking how the charged electricity is generated.

(still wondering where all the non-recycable wind blades and solar panels will be stored... Africa?)

in my opinion a short term silly solution...
but people far away don't produce CO2... (or at least less...)

 
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JohnMB

Super Anarchist
2,853
620
Evanston
for the environment it doesn't matter... going electric is just moving the problems to the countries where the ingredienst of batteries are 'produced' and at the end of life the batteries are 'destructed' without asking how the charged electricity is generated.

(still wondering where all the non-recycable wind blades and solar panels will be stored... Africa?)

in my opinion a short term silly solution...
but people far away don't produce CO2... (or at least less...)
One issue is that it is much easier to put environmental controls on one big power plant than thousands of engines. In addition the power plants can be made pretty efficient (even with the line transmission losses.) so even without using renewables, there can be a benefit to going electric.

The argument about batteries is a strong one, but the technology improvement in batteries are already making this less of an issue, and these improvements will continue as long as there is demand for the batteries.

I think that is very worthwhile to debate the details of this, however I'm not convinced that dismissing this as short term silly solution helps the discussion unless you can say what you think the better long term solution is likely to be. I suspect that doing nothing is a worse option.

 

daan62

Super Anarchist
One issue is that it is much easier to put environmental controls on one big power plant than thousands of engines. In addition the power plants can be made pretty efficient (even with the line transmission losses.) so even without using renewables, there can be a benefit to going electric.

The argument about batteries is a strong one, but the technology improvement in batteries are already making this less of an issue, and these improvements will continue as long as there is demand for the batteries.

I think that is very worthwhile to debate the details of this, however I'm not convinced that dismissing this as short term silly solution helps the discussion unless you can say what you think the better long term solution is likely to be. I suspect that doing nothing is a worse option.
the biggest problem is storing energy.

solutions:

- hydrogen... (yes, development is needed in technology to get efficiency up (mostly production wise))
- i'm stil thinking that you can also store energy kinetically (big flywheels or something in that direction (combination with wind energy... (although wiith most windmill farms they forget the part which sailors know as dirty air...)))

- batteries working on salt/ non-salt water are already being developed. (need more development)

generating:

i thing you can get a lot out of wave motion (mechanically (for example: first KERS systems in F1 were based on a lead ball... can you make that 3d? on a boat that would mean endless energy since the ocean/ sea is never motionless... (yes, it would take motion energy out of the boat which would otherwise be (possible) transferred to the sails))) - yes, you will need a form of a battery...

 
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daan62

Super Anarchist
the biggest problem is storing energy.

solutions:

- hydrogen... (yes, development is needed in technology to get efficiency up (mostly production wise))
- i'm stil thinking that you can also store energy kinetically (big flywheels or something in that direction (combination with wind energy... (although wiith most windmill farms they forget the part which sailors know as dirty air...)))

- batteries working on salt/ non-salt water are already being developed. (need more development)

generating:

i thing you can get a lot out of wave motion (mechanically (for example: first KERS systems in F1 were based on a lead ball... can you make that 3d? on a boat that would mean endless energy since the ocean/ sea is never motionless... (yes, it would take motion energy out of the boat which would otherwise be (possible) transferred to the sails))) - yes, you will need a form of a battery...
generating: look at the guy that sailed the last vendee without use of fossil (during sailing...) propellor and reversed use of electrical engine..

 

daan62

Super Anarchist
One issue is that it is much easier to put environmental controls on one big power plant than thousands of engines. In addition the power plants can be made pretty efficient (even with the line transmission losses.) so even without using renewables, there can be a benefit to going electric.

The argument about batteries is a strong one, but the technology improvement in batteries are already making this less of an issue, and these improvements will continue as long as there is demand for the batteries.

I think that is very worthwhile to debate the details of this, however I'm not convinced that dismissing this as short term silly solution helps the discussion unless you can say what you think the better long term solution is likely to be. I suspect that doing nothing is a worse option.
'In addition the power plants can be made pretty efficient (even with the line transmission losses.) so even without using renewables, there can be a benefit to going electric.'

when i see what sillyness has broken loose in the Netherlands...: it's ok to burn Canadien and Ukranien wood to produce energy... all of a sudden gas is very wrong... wind mill parks in the sea which are in no way efficient (energy loss during transport/ in the bible it states not to build a house on sand... why build a windmill on sand in a current and salt water? (maintenance is EXPENSIVE ofshore...)) are awesome and subsidised...

people are trying to solve a global problem locally... first transform the biggest poluters in the world... when throwing money away, who cares in what direction... instead of trying to solve the problem in your own country you can also get a bigger gain with the same (tax) money in an other country

 

daan62

Super Anarchist
'In addition the power plants can be made pretty efficient (even with the line transmission losses.) so even without using renewables, there can be a benefit to going electric.'

when i see what sillyness has broken loose in the Netherlands...: it's ok to burn Canadien and Ukranien wood to produce energy... all of a sudden gas is very wrong... wind mill parks in the sea which are in no way efficient (energy loss during transport/ in the bible it states not to build a house on sand... why build a windmill on sand in a current and salt water? (maintenance is EXPENSIVE ofshore...)) are awesome and subsidised...

people are trying to solve a global problem locally... first transform the biggest poluters in the world... when throwing money away, who cares in what direction... instead of trying to solve the problem in your own country you can also get a bigger gain with the same (tax) money in an other country
in the long term we are going to suffer from the cost of this SILLYNESS (or the cost of reversing these desicions)!

 
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JohnMB

Super Anarchist
2,853
620
Evanston
people are trying to solve a global problem locally... first transform the biggest poluters in the world... when throwing money away, who cares in what direction... instead of trying to solve the problem in your own country you can also get a bigger gain with the same (tax) money in an other country
I think that is a fair point, but but I take the view that our inability to get the global part right is no reason to not try to get the local part of it correct as well. I would write this as "as well as trying to solve the problem in your own country.....". not "instead of.......".

We will no doubt make mistakes along the way, however since we are already making mistakes the question is whether those mistakes we make while trying to take action are worse than doing nothing or not.

 

daan62

Super Anarchist
I think that is a fair point, but but I take the view that our inability to get the global part right is no reason to not try to get the local part of it correct as well. I would write this as "as well as trying to solve the problem in your own country.....". not "instead of.......".

We will no doubt make mistakes along the way, however since we are already making mistakes the question is whether those mistakes we make while trying to take action are worse than doing nothing or not.
agree! but let's set the priorities straight... get the most out of the buck! pick the low hanging fruit!

don't forget it's all tax money... first invest it where you get the biggest gain!

 

daan62

Super Anarchist
agree! but let's set the priorities straight... get the most out of the buck! pick the low hanging fruit!

don't forget it's all tax money... first invest it where you get the biggest gain!
if 'replacing an energy production facility in an other country' gets you closer to your overall goal it might be a better investment than 'investing an unrealistic amount of money to get closer to perfection'  localy... 

and concerning CO2.... stop cutting trees, maybe plant a few back, stop producing shit we don't need (why do i buy food in two layers of plasic and a layer of carton?), stop overbuying and then throwing away (i live across the street of a grocery store and do groceries daily (hardly trow away food)), maybe repair stuff instead of throwing away and replacing, stop buying shit from overseas because it's 5% cheaper (transport...), ...)

i think that 'electric engines' are just beeing used to distract us from the solutions which will (maybe) hurt the economy harder...

 
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IStream

Super Anarchist
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That's routinely bumped to related experiences indicating that Torqueedo still isn't ready for prime time.

 


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